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Forums > All other metal related talk..

wearing dotbh merch?

DeathInFire
Mon, 05/01/2015 - 05:17

something i was talking about with a friend lately and i've seen divide a lot of people. that being whether or not you're alright with wearing dawn of the black hearts shirts or patches or not.

from my pov, i would feel uncomfortable wearing it. thats not saying i'm uncomfortable wearing a violent shirt or patch, if its fictitious, i dont really care how tame or violent it is as long as i like the shirt itself. i remember there was some shitty metalcore band recently who put out a shirt with chris farley's death photo on it and my opinion on that is the same as dotbh or any real tragedy sold for a profit. per was a very obviously depressed person and i cant imagine he wanted his suicide to be put on every edgy teenager's t shirt and battle jacket. its really not something i want to wear around so i can be the coolest guy. people can wear the shirts and patches if they want and i wont stop them but i myself wouldn't be cool wearing it.


2hobos1box's picture

Yea I have the shirt. My girlfriend seems to be more fond of wearing it though.

DethronedEmperor23's picture

to anyone who wears it, or sports it (patch, poster, cd, etc) newsflash: you're a cunt. It's like, this person really went through alot and has a family, friends and an actual life, you dont think his family wants to see and be reminded of such a dark and misfortunate picture on shirts and shit that depicts a really dark moment that actually happened? It's super disrespectful and mind I say "fucking gay" because theres no other way to put it. Theres a user actually, that goes by the name of "NISSE666" that was actually friends with Dead, maybe he'll see this thread and share his thoughts on it. These were just mine.

meaningless's picture

1 or 2 years ago...some of us were alrdy talking with NISSE666 about this fact, as another member uploaded a shirt with this 'design'. i cant remember exactly his phrases..but i think i remember right when i say: he wasnt rly happy...and isnt rly happy with this merch-stuff.
but yeah..maybe he will see this thread here and let us hear some words :)

meaningless's picture

i agree with DeathInFire ...exactly like u say. ...its far far away from cool etc. and its not as Mayhem would just have this 1 tshirt-design..if u like the band..u can wear tons of other shirts to promote ur music-taste...

Johnny-Eyeball's picture

While I acknowledge owning such a patch (for example, the full colour woven one someone made depicting the suicide) would be interesting to own for the sake of it being quite a unique item, it's a far cry from actually wearing it around, for sure. Based on essentially any account of events from that time, no, it seems like nobody was ever okay with this idea other than the Columbian (I think?) record label who decided to actually use the picture for that bootleg. The only person who ever seemed to be 'okay' with the idea was Euronymous himself and obviously, his views are not representative of Mayhem as a whole or anyone else individually.

While I would not personally wear the image, I don't have ill feelings towards those who do as I feel like due to the desensitisation of the image, what with it being used as an album cover, bootleg as it may be, that the connotations behind what the image is and means doesn't quite resonate with everyone who views it. I'd also say a fair few people wear it in some sort of warped sense of honouring Dead, which is at least better than feeling like a supreme edgelord for wearing something depicting a suicide. It's a skewed sense of honouring someone, of course, but at least the intentions are there and that's better than simply thinking a suicide scene is cool.
I'm sure anyone who stopped to consider the facts, as laid out by DeathInFire, would think twice about flaunting that image and that is perfectly understandable and something I am in agreement with. I'm just not going to be bothered by someone who doesn't quite get those facts is all.
Apologies for the long winded post, just wanted to put across I didn't see it as black and white as it outwardly looks without making it seem like I'm justifying it. For the record, I don't own this image in any way, shape or form for the reasons I've laid out nor do I have any interest in doing so.

MasterDeath's picture

I agree with all of you here, except with 2hobos. I don't own that shirt. Every time when I hear about Pelle or listen to Morbid I remember of Nisse. He shared quite a bunch of amazing stories with us here. That photo is just disrespectful.
As much I like Mayhem I'll never obtain that recording in any format.

vomitoxic's picture

This goes little off-topic but gotta ask this:
There are other bands and shirts/records/patches etc with pictures of real people dead. Is Carcass's record "Wake up and smell the...carcass" showing JFK with his head blown any more acceptable than "DOTBH"?
It is sad that Mayhem/some other people try to profit about Dead's death but that situation isn't unique still.

Bit more off-topic. It's kinda interesting to see this kinda topic here after all since assload of metal lyrics are about killing, torturing, suicide, genocide and so on.

Back to the point. I wouldn't personally get that shirt/patch/record but if someone has it. It's their choice.

ProtoChaud's picture

I'd say DotBH is a bit less acceptable because Per was a brother in metal. I know it sounds corny, but I'd like to think that, minus some of the more rabid NSBM fans/bands, metalheads are a fairly tightly knit, though incredibly dysfunctional and argumentative, family, and that we care about our own.

JFK's assassination, on the other hand, is a part of history, not to mention the fact that he was a politician, and metalheads are generally rather anarchistic.

Just my two cents, sorry if I seem idealistic when the concept of the 'brotherhood of metal' comes up.

Hárbarðr's picture

I disagree, i think JFK's picture as a cover is more "understandable" since he was a public figure, someone holding the highest office in a country, therefore the level of privacy a person like that can enjoy is certainly different from the one somebody who's not in that position would. And i really doubt a member of an obscure (at least at the time) heavy metal band can qualify as a "public figure".

And probably the picture was taken by some journalist to be used in a news article as a proof that the assassination actually happened, while Dead's picture was taken because "having pictures of a real suicide is cool".

So yeah, i would never get that shirt, it is disrespectful and smells of attention-whoring.

PForx's picture

+1

Stathis's picture

Lets look at it this way. Euronymous took the picture and sent it to Bull Metal, in return he made a notorious LP as it is one of the 2 full length releases with Dead on vocals (the other one is live in Leipzig). Apart from that he only made 300 copies, so I guess it was supposed to be for specific people and collectors. Therefore, owning the LP is ok in my opinion (I have 2 of the original copies).

Shirts and patches of dotbh were mass produced years later and were only meant to capitalize on Dead's memory. Wearing one is just tacky and it means you are an attention whore who probably had never heard of Dead until you saw his death photo on google... On top of that, you don't own a piece of Mayhem's history or a unique item, you just own a bootleg of a bootleg that some Bulgarian or Mexican released in pure quality...

judascrust's picture

i have the CD, mostly because it's my favorite Mayhem recording from what i feel was the peak of Mayhem's existence but i personally wouldn't wear a shirt with that image on it. if you've got one as a collector's item that you don't wear out then whatever but as far as wearing it when you're out, i just think something like that is a bit too much to be showing off to the general public; I'm not above wearing offensive t-shirts but i think a real life suicide picture is pretty tasteless, that's just me though.

just wondering, how many of you decrying those who wear DOTBH shirts feel about bands like Macabre who feature serial killers' faces on their shirts?

DeathRipper's picture

I'm all for bad taste, but I'm pretty sure Per's family and friends don't appreciate it.

Heinz's picture

Macabre shirts are just co-opting real-life stuff which has been done again and again, it's all with a sense of humor---though some victims' families may not think so---but... Anyway, I'm kind of in the mode of collecting Macabre shirts at the moment (please see my Wanted list!!!) and still, I would not EVER want the Dead shirt around. That's one of the things Necro quit over, as he himself was disgusted by the photo and demanded Euro destroy it. The shirts were ALL bootleg, as Mayhem never put that design out.

Even the Macabre stuff; I will not own the Gein shirt that depicts a hanging torso flayed open on the back. Most of the others I can deal with. (again, see Wanted list!!!)

MaxPerv's picture

But the Gein shirt is one if their all time best. Eat At Ed's!

gizter's picture

dont think i would wear it if i listened to them.
but i do have a soft spot for real tragedy picture shirts (aswell as album covers). i have shirts with pictures of a soldier holding/draging a dead child (China 1930's), a mass grave (Armania 1895), a pile of burning corpses (dont know where from), one with 2 disabled girls learnig to walk (looks like it has something to do with Polio) and one with animal testing.
but all of those images are used in a more meaningfull way. while still partly used for shocking, they are showing us the horrors of the past (and even present) that we all like to ignore so much.

PForx's picture

I like the album itself, and I think it would be cool to have in my collection, based solely on the album's contents. On the other hand I think walking around wearing shirts and patches with the cover image is an asshole thing to do, which is weird because I wouldn't really mind shirts depicting things like historical mass murders. Maybe it's because the photo on DotBH is a lot more personal than a pile of anonymous corpses or the corpse some unknown person.

Also, considering where I live, it's not too unlikely for me to meet someone who knew Dead personally (or at least was acquainted) so that would be especially bad.

Morbid_Welshman's picture

I have no strong feelings one way or the other; I probably wouldn't go out of my way to buy the shirt, but I wouldn't lecture anyone for wearing one. I wouldn't have thought that his friends and family would appreciate it though.

As a Mayhem fan, I do have the album, of course for it's content.

Nater90's picture

I do own a copy on CD because Mayhem are one of my all time favourite Black Metal bands.

I wouldn't buy the shirt for it, and as for the patch for it I don't own it nor will it be on my Mayhem / Morbid tribute jacket because I think its a tad wrong.

Taikon's picture

I can't say I understand all the sympathies in this thread, like people here were friends with Dead something. Just because all those unnamed people who died in war atrocities or at the hands of serial killers are now nothing but photos in history books, it doesn't make their lives any less important than Dead's. I'm sure all their families would be offended too by all the crusties profiting off t-shirts with Vietnam / WWII victims. In fact, one should consider it much worse to wear shirts of that kind, since those people didn't choose to suffer and die, while Dead forfeited life under his own hands with a humorous note left to boot. I wonder how HE would've felt about those patches and shirts.

How many of you own Pungent Stench - Been Caught Buttering? Or any merch related to it? The photograph used for the album cover is an actual dead person's head. If you're disgusted by Dead's picture, why not a guy's head who was chopped in half for the sake of art without any consent from his family? Let's not be hypocritical here. If Dead's life is too precious to be "disrespected" on a t-shirt, then so are all those others.

Kathulex's picture

Lets not forget the infamous Slayer - Hanged boy and that was official, too.

Stathis's picture

What does that Slayer shirt have to do with the topic?????
The Mandatory Suicide shirt does not refer to a real event as far as I know or am I wrong? It s not a picture of a real dude who hanged himself.
Dawn of the Black hearts though features a picture of a real event, Dead blowing his head off, taken by Euronymous when he found the body.

Personally I don't care about the content of the picture, I just own copies of the LP for the material and as an investment. so I will have to agree with Taikon. You guys reproduce hundreds of pictures of dead people in one way or another (in social media, in shirts, in album covers etc). I don't see you caring about respect or their families there...
What is even funnier is that 99.9% of you (including myself) hadn't even heard of Dead when he was alive, let alone meet him or talk to him to justify your sympathy (apart from Nisse). A good friend of mine used to be penpals with Dead and he is not as sensitive on this topic as most of you... You shouldn't be wearing those shirts not because of Dead's memory but because:
a) it is tacky as hell
b) it is a bootleg of a bootleg made by some mexican or bulgarian and
c) it is just a cry for attention....

MasterDeath's picture

That's fine. But the topic says "wearing dotbh merch" and not "wearing merch of people who committed suicide or were murdered, etc.", you guys should open a topic with that topic name and let the people comment. This guy here just wanted to hear other opinions of wearing the dawn of the black hearts shirts and patches.
I know a lot of cover albums with dead people on it. Also, no one even mentioned in this topic that other real dead people on album covers look cool. And again, this topic is about dotbh merch.
I don't care how sensitive your friend is. I stated my opinion here like everyone else did. People here have read and heard a lot about Dead, and now the image of him is even better thanks to Nisse's stories.
I pay my respect to Per Yngve. I didn't know him in person nor I ever met a person who knew him. But I wish I knew him and saw him on stage.

Stathis's picture

You still did not answer my question or did not get my point. Is it ok to use the pictures of a random dead guy not giving a shit about his family or friends but not Dead's because someone told you he was a cool guy and it suddenly becomes disrespectful?

As Taikon said, it is hypocritical to describe dotbh merch as disrespectful to Dead's memory, family and friends and on the same time "consume" merch with pictures of other dead guys on them.. You said it yourself there are tones of merch with random dead guys on that you own or use, so why that selective sympathy for Dead?

The whole "disrespectful to Dead's memory or his family and friends" sounds way off to me especially since the BM/DM genres are filled with pics of the deceased... If that's the case then you should disapprove the use of similar pics on any shirt or album you own...

MasterDeath's picture

I know what you mean, I said you should make a topic to talk about other dead people, this topic is about the notorious photo of Dead.
I knew you'll play a card of the "dead" people in my collection. That's why I mentioned "real" dead people on album covers above. I personally don't own a piece of merch with a "real" dead person on it.
As much as shirts does not have prints that refer to real events is fine by me. I wrote what I think of Dead and not about JFK or dead elder men from Been Caught Buttering album.

Johnny-Eyeball's picture

I don't really care either way, as I stated above. I'm not going to give even the most marginal of fucks about people wearing or sporting it in some way. I, personally, would choose not to. It does make you look like a supreme try-hard edgelord wearing that stuff and even if any other band had any other album cover depicting any other corpse or whatever, actual cover art is always superior. This is my mindset when buying any band merch; proper artwork is always superior to a photo or a band shot or just a logo etc.
I understand both sides of the argument to a degree but at the end of the day, it serves no purpose other than to look edgy and since I do not even listen to Mayhem or really give a shit about how cool a suicide does or does not look, I wouldn't be into any of that stuff anyway.

Faber's picture

Wearing shirts with dead people is anyhow completely retarded.

Hárbarðr's picture

Yes, i agree.
I said "understandable", and that was not accidental. It is more "understandable" using JFK's picture, as it would be understandable if someone felt like expelling all muslims from his/her country after suffering an islamist terrorist attack, but that doesn't exclude it'd still be an unjust policy, since many moderate and peaceful muslims would be affected.

In the same way, using pictures with somebody's cadaver may be more or less "understandable" depending on the situation, but it is still disrespectful and tacky anyway. So, contradiction? Not really.

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