TShirtSlayer Heavy Metal Merch Gallery
  • Bands (0)
  • Groups (0)
  • Members (0)
  • (X)

World's largest community of heavy metal tshirt and battlejacket collectors.

Forums > All other metal related talk..

What happened to Retaliation prods?

CelticFrostedSn...
Mon, 10/01/2022 - 04:09

Whenever I’m looking to get a good deal of new patches I start with Retaliation prods, but the website is gone, so is ebay account. I had the guy who ran it on Facebook but I deleted my account some time ago so have no way of messaging him. Any idea what happened to the site? Had some stuff I definitely wish I had ordered in time.


Mute's picture

Oriol, the main guy behind Retaliation Prods knows about this post, not sure if he’s writing a response but he posted this on Instagram to sum up what happened

https://www.instagram.com/p/CWRZvCIogP3/?utm_medium=copy_link

Into Glory Ride's picture

Reasonable decision and fully understandable. The wave that overcame the "patch market" in the last months and years is weird at best, especially seeing all those weird shapes popping up.
What i did not understand , is the statement that officially means crap automatically? Woven Hoof for example makes a lot of official patches and he is at the top of the movement currently. Same for nearly everything that Mr. Greylord does.
Other than that: Spot on.

AbysmalWind's picture

"Official will never mean good". Finally someone points this out. I grew out of the patch frenzy aeons ago, but you can't be on a page like this and disregard and ever-growing patch market, so I'm somehow familiar with this trend... Thus being said, am I the only one who believes that 90-95% of modern day patches (mainly from Pull the plug) are absolutely dreadful????

Into Glory Ride's picture

Didn't wanna mention any names but not you are not
As stated before i do think there are great newer ones aswell though

So why "official will never mean good" ?

AbysmalWind's picture

I think he refers to the common mentality by which an "official" tag often determines whether a patch will be worthy of its namesake or not, when in many cases it's just the other way around; there are bootlegs which look stunning and there are official ones which can't hold a candle to the former in terms of quality and design, and vice versa.

Into Glory Ride's picture

I see, tanks for clearing that up. For me it sounded like official = automatically bad quality.
In that case i completely agree, there is a ton of official stuff, that looks like ass and especially designed without any passion.

AbysmalWind's picture

Nailed it, buddy!

MortalFate's picture

The smaller patch/pin producers are kind of underappreciated. There's been quality releases that would take time to sell out. Example, I have and used 3 of the new Atrophy, Socialised Hate patches. How could these patches still be available?

Demolition_hell_hammer's picture

Esos en especial son una puta basura , no sé que ve la gente en esos ''parches''

AbysmalWind's picture

Es que es increíble, con formas rarísimas y colores chillones, y por lo visto tienen una demanda muy alta. Inexplicable

Demolition_hell_hammer's picture

Bueno, creo que es porque pone ''official'' y ya la peña se vuelve loca jajaja

Hárbarðr's picture

Exactamente!! Exceso de colores, formas absurdas, no tienen ninguna gracia!

Bueno, una pena por Retaliation, realmente me gustaba su versión de Mark of the Beast, pero cuando intenté comprarlo durante la pandemia no podían enviar a Chile, y luego se me olvidó intentar nuevamente jajaja.

nosws4me's picture

You're not alone. I honestly think most of those Pull the Plug patches are so ugly, I don't get why people are all over them. It seems like almost everyone has at least one of their patches on one of their vests (I don't!)

Lord Lexy's picture

I have got a few of theirs. I strongly disagree with their idea that it should all be shapes and colorful borders, but there are some great designs in their collection. Bal-Sagoth (The Power Cosmic) is one of my favourite patches on my vest, and their Unleashed (Midvinterblot) could be as well if not for the weird shape.

Into Glory Ride's picture

Plus, what also needs to be said: The pricing of today's patches is beyond ridiculous.

Lord Lexy's picture

€5 should be standard. ;)

Kriegaz's picture

Not really. Depends entirely on the size of the patch, how it was made, how many were produced, what band it is (as this directly affects supply and demand) and obviously, how much they cost to produce.

A small time patch maker for obscure bands isn't going to sell at a loss just because you think they should.
€5 per patch would be great but basic supply and demand isn't always going to make that a reality, nor will the associated costs.

PTPP are an example on how not to do it. En masse patches of hundreds of bands, no matter how the patch was made or any of the associated costs, including making their own versions of official patches we've already seen a thousand times that they know will completely sell out in a week and still charging $10 for it. PTPP are a mass producer that 100% exist for a profit, excessive profit at that, not for the love or passion for what they're doing.

However, if you want any patch producers to keep making patches, including the ones that do it because they love the music and want fans to have something of these bands, then they have to sell for some degree of profit and sometimes for higher than €5, even if it's just enough to make their money back from production costs because there's no guarantee they will sell everything depending on how obscure the band is, and the longer it takes for that money to be made, the longer it takes for more patches to be made.
Much of that profit is sunk back into more patch making. The more they sell, the more patches they can make. Making patches should be done for the love of what you're doing, absolutely, but it is not a charity. Otherwise, they will disappear like Retaliation. Think about that before deciding that every single patch out there, no matter what, should be €5.
€10 is excessive for sure (though if you think a patch is worth that, more power to you), but €5 is simply not always realistic based on a number of factors and if you think it is, well, you're going to see more and more of the actually good patch makers disappear in the future, or if not, they will simply stick to 'safe' designs and bands nobody needs more patches of because they know they will sell quickly and cheaply and even that will get tiresome pretty quickly because if everyone starts doing that, most will disappear anyway.

Lord Lexy's picture

That’s a view I hadn’t considered, you make a good point!

bad_american1992's picture

Sad to hear they've closed up shop. They really were one of the best. Patch hunting has been a roller coaster since I dove into the pool a decade ago. But to be fair everything collectable community is going through the same upsets right now.
We've seen some incredible patches made by metal fanatics over the years, (sanctioned and unsanctioned lol) and it's sad that the oversaturation, back biting an sneakiness became so bad that it's pushing out an established and respected producer.

solaris11's picture

fuck that back biting ,but i know it happened several times ,i think it is another reason that retaliation prods closed.

Overactive Imagination's picture

We gettin' old brotha LOL!

bad_american1992's picture

We are turning into vintage metal items ourselves hahaha.

MortalFate's picture

I am very late to the merch game but I certainly was wondering what happened to old fashioned patch design. So basically, merch has become commercialized more than ever. There's a lot of crazy stuff being produced these days. Iron Maiden action figures? $100+ plastic sculptures of musicians?

Demolition_hell_hammer's picture

It's a long story,let's say that they were forced to close and I can't say more,so sad to be honest because their designs was one of the best I have ever seen,with a old school style that I haven't seen in others

Doomgarlic's picture

Who forced them to close? Bands or agressive patch producers? Would be good to know who to avoid in the future.

Whispers of Death's picture

In their words the explosion of patch makers, aswell as the complete witchhunt on bootleggers, or probably more accurate to say competitors.

Demolition_hell_hammer's picture

I prefer don't say it to be honest, for something they must to stop

Doomgarlic's picture

No worries, I fully understand! But it's a pity with all the hush-hush surrounding this, says a lot about those who hammer down the small producers into the ground.

kissman's picture

I was asking myself the same thing... other than the old schhol patches from back in the day.... they were the next best thing IMO.

solaris11's picture

retaliation-prods have his own style patches ,if you see it ,you know where it came from.I think the patche maker should do more like this .do not make mordern patches all.I also do not like weired shape.But i have to say PTPP made it more fashionable than before .I also like the old style patch .the style like 90' and around 2000.in normal shape .old should keep old .

"Official will never mean good"

David Dynamite's picture

It's a damn shame that they closed... I have bought loads of patches from them and I liked the fact that the prices were reasonable amd the designs fair as well...
We all should support small producers who make quality merch 🤘🏼

satanachist's picture

Damn that sucks, especially if they had problems with someone's fucking lawyers. Those were the glory days few years ago, when they started making patches. I'm lucky I have a fair amount that they made. I don't buy patches anymore since I finished my vest, but I still follow some groups and I agree that there is a big decrese in quality of deisgns

Overactive Imagination's picture

Bloodlikerain is gone now as well too.

Doomgarlic's picture

Their store is still up as far as I can see.

Overactive Imagination's picture

His Instagram is gone though

Overactive Imagination's picture

I believe whoever was threatening Corrosive graphics had Bloodlikerain's Instagram page shut down. I could be wrong though.

Corrosive's picture

I am (or better, I was) the co-founder and main designer of Retaliation Prods. As I explain on my farewell Instagram post (for those who missed the link above: https://www.instagram.com/p/CWRZvCIogP3/?utm_medium=copy_link thanks Mute for bringing it up) the oversaturarion on the merchandise/patch market was giving us a hard time and the back biting and sneakiness of other producers was too much. There are well known stablished labels who love to crush other competitors by sending their lawyers or band managers. Very metalhead of them. They are simple capitalist money mongers.

One of these sent a manager after us. And my long-time partner had enough of all this bullshit. So we closed. Retaliation Prods is out of the game. What I noticed is that a lot of people supported us with heart, even though we were never bragging on social medias, releasing "sneak peak" posts or talking about modern words like "drops", this or that. I can even confirm that most of our customer base was old-school minded and a lot of them were the same guys that bought stuff from us since the beggining. I'm still very angry and saddened about it, but there's nothing I can do. The other producers have won, they can keep releasing their absolute official bullshit everywhere. There's a less competitor to worry about.

That other producer who sent us a manager also did the same to others and he was the only visible link between us and such manager. So much of a coincidence. Well, these guys can keep releasing their 10€ official patches.

PS: As a former patch producer I can guarantee that 10€ is an unjustifiable over-inflated price. Our old supplier charged us around 1$ per patch, so make your numbers.

Into Glory Ride's picture

Sad story that makes you furious while reading it. I actually planned to do a patch here and there too for a long time already, mainly for bands i personally worship that have no (good looking!) patches yet and that often are underground enough, not having too big of an audience.

but that manager/lawyer thing scares me off a bit to be honest. Sounds like Joey deMaio even.

Corrosive's picture

I suggest you to make a very small run of embroidered patches, cause these can be made without minimum order. Just make a few for you and close friends and do not advertise/sell them online to avoid possible trouble. Just like some of these "HMFC" guys here on TSS do sometimes.

Into Glory Ride's picture

Thank you alot for those hints. Initially i wanted to do everything online, with advertisements but in small quanitites. But i might go for a complete offline/oral approach.
Appreciate it!

MortalFate's picture

If you make any Sabbat (UK) patches, please let me know. ;)

Kriegaz's picture

Just do it, man. I've done one myself and plan to do more. No overdone designs, things we've seen a thousand times or stuff that directly conflicts with what bands are selling themselves. I've actually created a few of my own designs myself that I plan to do turn into stuff at some point, so I'm hardly undercutting anything official there of course.

The absolute worst that happens is someone tells you to stop, and you learn your lesson, sell off the rest under the radar and know what's what at that point. Nobody is going to take you to court over a few patches.

Miteux's picture

All Hail to Retaliation Prods!

Have a lot of their patches, love the designs approach, and top quality.
Metal merch is going insane recently, too bad they need to stop...

Super sad to hear that other patch maker needs to send lawyers to small non benefit label just to erase the "competition".

SodomaniacGermany's picture

It's a shame, the patches from Retaliation Prods were well made and captured the essence of the artwork really well.

But it is true, the sheer amount of new patches coming to the market is just ridiculous. Everyday there is something new, it all got kind of boring if you ask me. I'm glad i got nearly everything i wanted.
The hunt for rare and unique patches is what is the greatest fun for me, but it seems like less and less people are willing to search for something unique which results in rip-offs and countless bootlegs, some of them don't even change anything and just copy it 1:1.
And from my experience this attitude comes from those who cry about patch prices most of the times.
Don't get me wrong here, i don't say that one has to pay hundreds of euros for a patch, just go on the hunt. I had to search some patches for years to get them for a reasonable price, but it was fun in the end and the experience was just great, a rewarding feeling.
Sometimes you have to be creative, i got a lot of my most wanted ones for example from a few people i met on festivals, mainly people that are over 40 years old and don't really have a use for them anymore cause they grew out of the shirt etc. What i want to say is that there are plenty of ways to obtain patches, and rare patches are surely not only in the hands of collectors, there is always a chance to make a bargain, you just have to search like a maniac.
And for those who don't want to take those efforts, it is okay too, for that purpose there are sites like retaliationprods who have great designs.
It just gets boring when more and more people are jumping on that train and bringing patches out every fucking day or week.
And often times, quantity outweighs quality in those cases.

And another result of this bootleg culture is the fact that less people are posting pictures of some originals here (including me) since the chance is big that it just gets ripped off and reproduced with a good picture. And it happened a few times which is just sad.

Into Glory Ride's picture

https://innerpaths.bigcartel.com/

And a new one in the game. "Official", retarded shapes and i will not start talking about the prices...

Morbid_pizza_eater53's picture

total ignore for greedy-ass patchers like him

MortalFate's picture

From my own observations, 10 seems to be the norm now. This might be an inflation issue. Just bought 2 band patches from Evil Greed for 11 and 12 dollars.

Kriegaz's picture

In fairness, people are always going to have higher prices for niche bands. If you make a Death or Bathory patch, you'll sell out every one by the end of the week, even if it's the same design we've seen a million times already, so they can be sold cheaply.

A lot of these newer people pop up to sell patches for lesser known bands who have no patches and very little merch at all.
Niche band = low demand.
Low demand = less stock.
Less stock = higher price to cover the cost.

I don't think it's horribly unreasonable depending on the design and size of the patch relative to the band it's from.
But when you're making a Sound of Perseverance or Bathory Hordes patch for the thousandth time and charging $10 for it, there's a problem.

Faber's picture

Hahaha totally kills me. Same as those big patches, say bigger than 10x10. Or circle patches with a 9 cm diameter.

Into Glory Ride's picture

Yes! I won't even start talking about all those weird shapes that came up in recent months and years. There was a meme (probably PtP) that said "Patches before our company" vs "patches after our company", and it turned form simple square patches to everything from circles, triangles, hearts, sharks, cocks, and hell knows what else.

And (i think) Blood Like Rain made a "countermeme" : "Patches before our company:: Square" , "Patches after our company: Still square"
hahahaha, Bulls eye

Faber's picture

I'm get already triggered too much when I try to fit in a triangle in my lay-out...

But yeah PTPP is exactly what we can miss in the patch game. Seems less and less about patches and more and more look at us.

🤣🤣 for BLR.

Into Glory Ride's picture

Right on, although triangles often look quite amazing (thinking of that King of the dead and the Crystal logic)

Fully agreed!

hopeiw's picture

you need a triangle vest for your triangle patches x)

bad_american1992's picture

"Mystery Patch" is just slang for "Bolt Thrower" patch hahahaha

Into Glory Ride's picture

hahaha yeah, modern classic

Doomgarlic's picture

You hit the nail on the head! Always Bolt Thrower.

no_teleology's picture

God those look awful, hate that modern PTPP inspired look, it’s like the patch equivalent of overproduced plastic sound in metal

Into Glory Ride's picture

Perfectly put.
The Alestorm of Patches.

Corrosive's picture

Dead on! You have won the internet.

MortalFate's picture

I am surprised myself but PTPPs weaving and detail is better than whoever is making Maiden's square patches. Things ain't adding up all over the place.

MortalFate's picture

Plenty of distros and bands bandcamps worth supporting, after all. Hope money doesn't trump here. If money is the MO.... Beats the MO that drove metal into existence.

Arkturean's picture

Man that really sucks. Sorry to see Retaliation go. Some stuff is better with patches in general today (more detailed weaving capability, wider selection), but on the whole a lot is worse. It feels way more commercialized these days... "sneak previews", "drop dates", patches selling out right away, etc. It used to be more word-of-mouth and informal ("where did you get this?") and less attention-whoring on Facebook. More of a community feeling.

Faber's picture

Saw today a sneakpreview:

"Soon, somewhere in 2022".

Take a hike, and just post it when it's done. xD

Odradek's picture

There seems to be a bigger hype for certain "badge drops" than for actual music that's being released.

Arkturean's picture

Yeah exactly :P

Vectrex's picture

I really miss them.

invisible-horizons's picture

What a shame that the smaller guys who have a passion for Metal lose out to these clout-chasing, money-driven trendy posers.

Do you guys remember Mad Patcher from Italy. They started around 2006-2007, I believe. To be honest, I’ve never bought any of their patches (not the best quality from what I remember) but it’s nice to reminisce of a time when there wasn’t an overload of different producers coming out of the woodwork to make a quick buck.

I use to buy from a Thai seller on eBay under the name of Patch Depot. They were the first of its kind back in 2006 and made killer patches.

As far as “Pull the Butt Plug” patches… I’ll definitely pass.

Into Glory Ride's picture

I learned they're called PLONK DA PLONK.

Doomgarlic's picture

Pull the Butt Plug Patches, good one!

Hárbarðr's picture

Yes, I remember patch depot! Got a couple of patches from them, good old times haha.

TornApart's picture

I dont get why not expose PTPP for what they did ?? Why is it some secret

I miss retaliation prod , all of their designs you can tell were carefully designed , not mass produced shaped crap

I doubt it was anything serious . You gonna let simon springer bully you out of making YOUR money ??? Lol

Doomgarlic's picture

It's strange indeed, would be nice to know why Pull the Plug did whatever they did. I also fail to see how Pull the Plug could see Retaliation as a competitor at all... Very different approach to patches in all ways possible when you look at the two.

samael6666's picture

Theyre by far not the first or only label to do that to, seems like its their "strategy" to whine to bands about it hurting their sales and then said bands or their labels filing copyright claims

Doomgarlic's picture

Speaking of copyright claims - The first patch they made was a Bolt Thrower bootleg! Simon Springer got grumpy and whiny when I pointed out that it wasn't a "goblin" (as he stated it) on the patch as but a Chaos Space Marine. Hah!
Here's the patch in question: https://tshirtslayer.com/patch/bolt-thrower-%E2%80%94-realm-chaos-woven-...

But to be more on topic, it's really sad to hear how their business strategy works. Haven't bought anything from Pull the Plug yet and will probably never do either.

samael6666's picture

Oh he gets more grumpy now when you point out he even made that. Its like it doesnt exist to him xD

Into Glory Ride's picture

As for the topic...

bad_american1992's picture

Ahahahaha

Kriegaz's picture

Based.

Kriegaz's picture

Very unfortunate. Ultimately, what other patch makers are doing shouldn't make the slightest bit of difference. Retaliation had great designs no one else was making, especially the synthwave patches.

I ultimately don't care how many of them make patches because I don't lose my marbles and buy buy buy every single patch from every band. If it's shit quality, I won't buy it. If it's priced much higher than it's worth, I won't buy it. If it's good quality, good value and a unique design, I will buy it.

He's absolutely right though, 'official' means nothing in terms of quality. It simply means the band did or didn't give their approval. Ultimately, this is only a conflict when you're making bootlegs of direct products sold by the band. If they aren't producing any form of alternative, then they're not losing money.

I wasn't aware about what PTPP patches were up to regarding other patch producers, but given some of their recent social media activity, I'm actually not surprised one bit. After seeing what I've seen, and now this too, I won't be buying a single thing from them in the future. I couldn't care less if it's official. Not a chance PTPP will see a single penny from me if this is how they're treating others in the scene trying to do the very same thing they're doing for the benefit of all of us. Most definitely not practicing what they've been preaching.

465,599 items in the gallery, 846,694 comments, and 678 items have changed hands in the last month.

Guess this TShirt!

Can you guess which metal tshirt this is from?

Can you guess which metal TShirt this is from? Click here for all previous tshirt guesses

Recent Comments

  • Let me show you an idea that came to me for a leather jacket
  • Thanks! I can almost picture the bp on a leather project of mine I'll upload soon!
  • Why pay 350 for someones tattered old rags when you can buy a brand new one for 30 thats printed on a better shirt?
  • Wish I had what you are looking for. I need that Cattle Decapitation patch lol good luck in your search!
  • Metal devastation. That's where I get most of my back logos from.
  • Amazing shirt
  • Well, actually 30USD is still expensive for this bootleg and even more offensive if they’re printing with copyrights, Ho
  • In my opinion the best concept album ever done...must be listened to from start to finish !
  • \m/ SWEET \m/
  • Great pics !!!!!
  • Hell yeah
  • Thanks Erick! Or should I say Dennis DePue....\m/
  • Got it off Ebay a while ago. Great quality all the way around.
  • No salt at all my friend. Just sick of patch police.
  • Fantastic brother!Where from??hail!
  • lmao someone is getting a bit salty here XD A real shame tbh that so many ppl with this mindset is growing by the day