I saw mayhem live and all i got was this crappy shirt.
[Updated by DoctorDeath - Comments are off, this tshirt is awesome, i dont want to hear any more for/against religion arguments, religions of all persuasions are total bullshit. ]
How is being a complete a$$hole and ruining things other people love "cool"? It's a stupid shirt with a ridiculous and dangerous message. If you hate religion, or God, then ignore it and don't go to church. Illegal, violent acts of destruction are not "cool", they are LAME!
If he's not a Christian, then my apologies. Not that being a christian is a bad thing. But if this shirt is offensive...might wanna live and let live on a different website. Not like this place is celebrating hippiejesuslove music. There is PLENTY to be offended at here. Just my two cents.
Church burning is a pretty substanstial part of black metal. If wearing this shirt makes me an asshole then it is what it is, i have plenty of shirts with inverted jesus, burning churches, demons and monsters(and they arent all black metal bands). Cause thats what im into and thats what kind of music i like. I dont see you leaving comments on my other shit on here and they are the same. If you think a message on a shirt is "dangerous," then you obviously have nothing better to worry about. My shirt isnt oppressive either, im not going door to door trying to make people listen to what i believe, or picking fights with people cause they are christian. So i dont think you have a problem with this shirt, i think you might have an issue with metal in general. And everytime i see this shirt in the closet it makes me laugh.
I say the assholes are the ones who cloak themselves in shroud of godliness and pick and choose from the bible what works best for their lives and their own judgmental behaviors. Growing up in church, i can say from experience that those places seethe with hatred and greed and wickedness. So...while I'm not for violence and destruction of other people's property, I really think Christians have a bad reputation for being the bigger asshole and pushing themselves onto the rest of the world. Isn't that how the black metal church burning movement started, anyway? As a protest of that very thing? Two wrongs don't make a right and it'll be a never-ending war.
I'm sorry to hear that is your experience. That has not been my experience at all. Rather, in some of the worst times in my life, those people have stood behind me and my family. My church in particular feeds the hungry, is out there doing as much good as they can in the community. When the local school district was having financial troubles, the church came to the rescue and raised thousands of dollars and purchased paper, notebooks, pens, pencils and other needed supplies. They didn't ask for anything in return. Hardly a greedy or wicked thing to do.
People aren't perfect, even if they are Christians. They will screw up. I know I've done some pretty asinine things in my lifetime. Others will just use the name Christian to scam people out of their money. Just because they used the name doesn't make them a true Christian. The Bible warns that there will be many false prophets and wolves in sheep clothing. You can judge the bunch by just a few.
I don't mean to come across preachy, but a true Christian is just someone who loves God and is trusting in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Nothing more, nothing less.
the churches where i live, they want people to work for them for free (i mean THOUSANDS of dollars worth of work), they go out to peoples houses and businesses to preach to them and ask for money, they do no charity work or anything of the sort, and wet their pants when i catch them at my car trying to post little papers and flyers on my window. That is my experience with religion.
I am a Christian, but that wasn't my point. If I was gonna be offended by something, I'd be offended by some of the shirts by Cradle of Filth or something. I'm not easily offended, especially by a t-shirt. Give me a break and understand the point.
Let people enjoy what they want to enjoy. Hundreds of thousands of people cherish their church and their religion and they are not out there scamming money, pointing fingers and "cloaking themselves in shrouds of godliness". They are just people, not hate mongers. Metal fans and artists scream bloody murder if someone dare suggest censorship towards their art/music, yet seem to have no problem with censoring and even destroying something that someone else holds dear.
As Metaalharses suggest, Live and let live. That's the point.
I didn't call anyone here an asshole. I said someone that would purposely go out and burn down a church, commit an illegal act of arson and destruction is an asshole.
(And for the record I used the $$ rather than the ss because I didn't know if there was a cuss filter here or not like there are on some boards.)
I was waiting for it! TEXAS PWNS THE WORLD IN BBQ and bbq accesories. And no im no church burner. Im a biblist burner. Seriously i work a 40+ hour job. Between that and looking for patches and paying bills and going to shows and shit theres no time. And my car back window is full of stickers from bands like belphegor, morbid angel, hatchet, darkthrone, deicide, etc. So i of course would be prime suspect number eins.
bbq meat-up. @ Phosphorus...I'm pretty sure the TX church burners just pled guilty and prosecutors are seeking @ life sentences. They should be sentenced in the next 2 weeks. It'll be interesting to see how much time they get. I wonder if the fact that they burned churches will make the penalty stiffer than regular arson consequences.
Wow! You are really trying hard to convince yourself that all Christians are just really bad, greedy, self-centered people. I'm really sorry to hear that this has been your experience. It's not the way it's suppose to be. The Bible teaches that God's followers are to love others as He loved us. The Word became flesh and died a horrific, bloody death in our stead. There was no hidden agenda, it was purely for the love of his people. That's the example Christians are to follow. That's the reason His followers should be out there serving others.
How does it make them hypocritical. Do you know many Christians who claim to be perfect and sinless? I think most Christians I know readily admit that they screw things up, which is why they are in need of a Savior in the first place. People are people. They screw up, they do good things.
I was driving home the other day and saw a woman struggling to get something into the trunk of her car. I pulled over and picked up the item and placed it in her car for her. I didn't do that to gain an entrance into heaven or to gain some sort of reward. It's just the right thing to do. Because I am a Christian, does that make me hypocritical?
Exactly what is hypocritical about saying, "I believe in Jesus Christ and trust him"? How does this make them "hypocritical and even cynical"? It's the exact opposite, it makes them humble and not hypocritical at all. On the other hand, those over-zealous religious people out there that think they are perfect, sinless, above others, and point an accusing finger, they are the one's who are hypocritical.
I am far from perfect. I am a Christian because I am trusting in God's grace, not because I think I am better than anyone else. Sometimes I am as much of an ass as the next person.
If I may add to this discussion, I think this is the problem with labels in general. It seems that once you call yourself something you are expected to live up to some sort of standard set by somebody else.
Also, most "christians" that I've known don't ever claim to be perfect and without "sin," but it's the attitude they carry themselves with. For example, an entire church turned their backs to my mother and step father for having a child out of wedlock. They called my brother an "abomination." I think that most people (with the exception of people that just say they hate christianity and religion because that's the attitude the label they bear dictates) hate christianity and it's followers as a whole because of personal issues they've had with certain supposed certain followers of Christ. Like people they trusted or people that were supposed to be their protectors and guardians. This kind of thing might make it hard for people to see that there are good and bad in EVERY group.
to be fair and accurate, it should be pointed out that "good deeds" helping one "get into heaven" is largely a misconception and thoroughly simplified notion of what Scripture prescribes as human conduct for salvation. There's a well penned book http://t.co/XHf6D0j on the subject called 'All Good People Go To Heaven: and other Religious Lore' ...although I am firmly agnostic and stay fiercely rooted in philosophical inquiry, I would argue that "anti"-Christians need to be better informed...because the 'popular/common' sphere of religious criticism is rife with triviality and misinformation.
Christianity is "by grace are you saved" and I think Catholics are by works. And lots of repeated prayers to relics and idols. I can see why people go the way of Agnostic or Atheism. It's all a little overwhelming and then you add people's selfish nature to the mix. In my opinion, the misinformation comes from people not wanting to get near Christians because of the bad reputation they tend to get for being fanatical. That and a lot of people don't take biblical theory in university classes.
And what evidence might that be? I tend to find when people make that claim really know little about 1) The Bible & Christianity 2) the scientific evidence they claim goes against Christianity.
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Phosphorous_Redeemer on
thanks its one of the few shirts i own thats not a band shirt
DeathFuckinMetal on
Fucking Awesome, i wish i had this shirt.
diamondmaster93 on
I wish I had one of these when I had to go to chruch with school at the start of every spring break.
Phosphorous_Redeemer on
ha of course. there have been a string of church burnings in my state over the last year. If it keeps up we might out-arson norway. Take that VARG!
guitar_demon on
which state?
Phosphorous_Redeemer on
Texas
ultmetal on
Lame!
Phosphorous_Redeemer on
Lame? Wheres your super cool curch burning shirt?
ultmetal on
How is being a complete a$$hole and ruining things other people love "cool"? It's a stupid shirt with a ridiculous and dangerous message. If you hate religion, or God, then ignore it and don't go to church. Illegal, violent acts of destruction are not "cool", they are LAME!
Phosphorous_Redeemer on
And if your gonna call me an asshole, say ASSHOLE not a$$hole.
cack on
I think your reaction are what these shirts are meant to provoke. That, and maybe a few laughs.
metallicane on
how is calling someone an asshole a "christian" thing to do? I never understood that. Anyway, I laughed. Am I evil? Yes, I fucking am.
Metaalharses on
I don't think Ult is implying he's a christian, he's just saying to live and let live.
metallicane on
If he's not a Christian, then my apologies. Not that being a christian is a bad thing. But if this shirt is offensive...might wanna live and let live on a different website. Not like this place is celebrating hippiejesuslove music. There is PLENTY to be offended at here. Just my two cents.
Phosphorous_Redeemer on
Church burning is a pretty substanstial part of black metal. If wearing this shirt makes me an asshole then it is what it is, i have plenty of shirts with inverted jesus, burning churches, demons and monsters(and they arent all black metal bands). Cause thats what im into and thats what kind of music i like. I dont see you leaving comments on my other shit on here and they are the same. If you think a message on a shirt is "dangerous," then you obviously have nothing better to worry about. My shirt isnt oppressive either, im not going door to door trying to make people listen to what i believe, or picking fights with people cause they are christian. So i dont think you have a problem with this shirt, i think you might have an issue with metal in general. And everytime i see this shirt in the closet it makes me laugh.
metallicane on
I say the assholes are the ones who cloak themselves in shroud of godliness and pick and choose from the bible what works best for their lives and their own judgmental behaviors. Growing up in church, i can say from experience that those places seethe with hatred and greed and wickedness. So...while I'm not for violence and destruction of other people's property, I really think Christians have a bad reputation for being the bigger asshole and pushing themselves onto the rest of the world. Isn't that how the black metal church burning movement started, anyway? As a protest of that very thing? Two wrongs don't make a right and it'll be a never-ending war.
ultmetal on
I'm sorry to hear that is your experience. That has not been my experience at all. Rather, in some of the worst times in my life, those people have stood behind me and my family. My church in particular feeds the hungry, is out there doing as much good as they can in the community. When the local school district was having financial troubles, the church came to the rescue and raised thousands of dollars and purchased paper, notebooks, pens, pencils and other needed supplies. They didn't ask for anything in return. Hardly a greedy or wicked thing to do.
People aren't perfect, even if they are Christians. They will screw up. I know I've done some pretty asinine things in my lifetime. Others will just use the name Christian to scam people out of their money. Just because they used the name doesn't make them a true Christian. The Bible warns that there will be many false prophets and wolves in sheep clothing. You can judge the bunch by just a few.
I don't mean to come across preachy, but a true Christian is just someone who loves God and is trusting in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Nothing more, nothing less.
Phosphorous_Redeemer on
the churches where i live, they want people to work for them for free (i mean THOUSANDS of dollars worth of work), they go out to peoples houses and businesses to preach to them and ask for money, they do no charity work or anything of the sort, and wet their pants when i catch them at my car trying to post little papers and flyers on my window. That is my experience with religion.
metallicane on
and phosphorous...i don't think he called YOU the asshole. Unless you burn churches yourself.
Metaalharses on
guys relax, and don't use Ahol or other abuse on here or DoctorDeath will ban you and that would be a shame
metallicane on
It's a relatively mature conversation, Metaalhorses...I'm sure DoctorDeath would agree.
ultmetal on
I am a Christian, but that wasn't my point. If I was gonna be offended by something, I'd be offended by some of the shirts by Cradle of Filth or something. I'm not easily offended, especially by a t-shirt. Give me a break and understand the point.
Let people enjoy what they want to enjoy. Hundreds of thousands of people cherish their church and their religion and they are not out there scamming money, pointing fingers and "cloaking themselves in shrouds of godliness". They are just people, not hate mongers. Metal fans and artists scream bloody murder if someone dare suggest censorship towards their art/music, yet seem to have no problem with censoring and even destroying something that someone else holds dear.
As Metaalharses suggest, Live and let live. That's the point.
I didn't call anyone here an asshole. I said someone that would purposely go out and burn down a church, commit an illegal act of arson and destruction is an asshole.
(And for the record I used the $$ rather than the ss because I didn't know if there was a cuss filter here or not like there are on some boards.)
Metaalharses on
so many words....brain...burns....must..have...beer and light meaningless conversation to compensate... ;)
mayhempunk666 on
i fully agree with you...so whats your favorite color? haha
Metaalharses on
I like green, like the trees and the grass and the municipal waste logo...
mayhempunk666 on
ah green is a fine color, i prefer red though
Metaalharses on
red is such an angry color, are you angry ?
mayhempunk666 on
no not really, i just think its a very tantilizing color
metallicane on
break down:
church burning - bad
t-shirt saying to burn church - lol
christians - sometimes good
amirite?
ultmetal on
LOL! Ok. Sounds good to me.
Phosphorous_Redeemer on
I love you guys
Phosphorous_Redeemer on
Stay out of this you
Phosphorous_Redeemer on
P.S. I DONT REALLY LOVE YOU GUYS!
Metaalharses on
grouphug or dog pile?
Metaalharses on
on a more on topic note, you have to admire the design simplicity of this shirt.
I mean it could have easily been a road-sign.
Metaalharses on
Aussies never could resist a good barbecue ;)
megadeth1818 on
yeah the simplistic, comedic evil of it reminds me of witchfinder general
Phosphorous_Redeemer on
This has to be the best comment posting on the site. such passion. Such colorful personalities.
metallicane on
ps - Texans rule the Aussies in BBQ. Maybe Phosphorous Redeemer really IS a church burner. *gasp*
Phosphorous_Redeemer on
I was waiting for it! TEXAS PWNS THE WORLD IN BBQ and bbq accesories. And no im no church burner. Im a biblist burner. Seriously i work a 40+ hour job. Between that and looking for patches and paying bills and going to shows and shit theres no time. And my car back window is full of stickers from bands like belphegor, morbid angel, hatchet, darkthrone, deicide, etc. So i of course would be prime suspect number eins.
metallicane on
bbq meat-up. @ Phosphorus...I'm pretty sure the TX church burners just pled guilty and prosecutors are seeking @ life sentences. They should be sentenced in the next 2 weeks. It'll be interesting to see how much time they get. I wonder if the fact that they burned churches will make the penalty stiffer than regular arson consequences.
ultmetal on
Wow! You are really trying hard to convince yourself that all Christians are just really bad, greedy, self-centered people. I'm really sorry to hear that this has been your experience. It's not the way it's suppose to be. The Bible teaches that God's followers are to love others as He loved us. The Word became flesh and died a horrific, bloody death in our stead. There was no hidden agenda, it was purely for the love of his people. That's the example Christians are to follow. That's the reason His followers should be out there serving others.
ultmetal on
How does it make them hypocritical. Do you know many Christians who claim to be perfect and sinless? I think most Christians I know readily admit that they screw things up, which is why they are in need of a Savior in the first place. People are people. They screw up, they do good things.
I was driving home the other day and saw a woman struggling to get something into the trunk of her car. I pulled over and picked up the item and placed it in her car for her. I didn't do that to gain an entrance into heaven or to gain some sort of reward. It's just the right thing to do. Because I am a Christian, does that make me hypocritical?
Exactly what is hypocritical about saying, "I believe in Jesus Christ and trust him"? How does this make them "hypocritical and even cynical"? It's the exact opposite, it makes them humble and not hypocritical at all. On the other hand, those over-zealous religious people out there that think they are perfect, sinless, above others, and point an accusing finger, they are the one's who are hypocritical.
I am far from perfect. I am a Christian because I am trusting in God's grace, not because I think I am better than anyone else. Sometimes I am as much of an ass as the next person.
cack on
If I may add to this discussion, I think this is the problem with labels in general. It seems that once you call yourself something you are expected to live up to some sort of standard set by somebody else.
Also, most "christians" that I've known don't ever claim to be perfect and without "sin," but it's the attitude they carry themselves with. For example, an entire church turned their backs to my mother and step father for having a child out of wedlock. They called my brother an "abomination." I think that most people (with the exception of people that just say they hate christianity and religion because that's the attitude the label they bear dictates) hate christianity and it's followers as a whole because of personal issues they've had with certain supposed certain followers of Christ. Like people they trusted or people that were supposed to be their protectors and guardians. This kind of thing might make it hard for people to see that there are good and bad in EVERY group.
CultureOfNone on
to be fair and accurate, it should be pointed out that "good deeds" helping one "get into heaven" is largely a misconception and thoroughly simplified notion of what Scripture prescribes as human conduct for salvation. There's a well penned book http://t.co/XHf6D0j on the subject called 'All Good People Go To Heaven: and other Religious Lore' ...although I am firmly agnostic and stay fiercely rooted in philosophical inquiry, I would argue that "anti"-Christians need to be better informed...because the 'popular/common' sphere of religious criticism is rife with triviality and misinformation.
metallicane on
Christianity is "by grace are you saved" and I think Catholics are by works. And lots of repeated prayers to relics and idols. I can see why people go the way of Agnostic or Atheism. It's all a little overwhelming and then you add people's selfish nature to the mix. In my opinion, the misinformation comes from people not wanting to get near Christians because of the bad reputation they tend to get for being fanatical. That and a lot of people don't take biblical theory in university classes.
ultmetal on
And what evidence might that be? I tend to find when people make that claim really know little about 1) The Bible & Christianity 2) the scientific evidence they claim goes against Christianity.