Hi folks,
So, this happened to me minutes ago. Like 4 days ago I put up for auction an original Cenotaph BP in all its Popworld -copyrighted-glory on eBay. Sale was to end in 3 days, all was fine. Then I received this e-mail from eBay telling me that my listing had been deleted because it contravened VeRO rules on counterfeit items... Verbatim: "Your listing was reported by the rights owner listed below as a counterfeit item." I bet you'll never guess, said rights owner is BT legal representation.
Now, I know BT lawyers are especially vigilant on the web regarding bootlegs and all, but this is a legit, second-hand BP we're talking about. Did anyone already had the same experience?
Oh yeah i heard theyve done that more often. Not sure if thats legally even allowed as this was an official issue. While i love the band, their shitstains they call lawyers really just ruin them for me a bit
Thanks for your feedback! Yeah, pretty unfair move if you ask me. I really hesitate to get back to them as eBay invites me too (If you believe an error has been made, you should contact the rights holder directly. If the rights holder accepts your dispute, ask them to contact us directly to reactivate your listing), even if I assume it'd be like talking to a wall.
Chances are they have some dickless newbie on their legal team who just searches "Bolt Thrower Patch" on eBay and carpet bombs every result with the email you got. You could try and dispute it, in fact you'd probably succeed since that is an official BP and has the correct copyright info.
Very interesting, cheers - I just checked and weirdly enough indeed there are shirts by the shovelful but no patches. Looks like a partial, poor use of the eBay saved search function more and more... I was also wondering if they genuinely thought that every single patch listed on eBay was a boot, just because they have no clue.
You know I'm a TSS homeboy, I do most of my trades and sales here. My plan now is to dispute it to see if it leads me anywhere, and if it does in a positive way by any chance, to end the relisted auction immediately.
They've been doing that for years for no apparent reason. I have some sympathies when it comes down to some bloody scalpers selling concert merchandise by the lot for instance, but in your case I have no serious idea what their point might be.
Cheers for your input! So their lawyers are illegally flagging legit, vintage merchandise as counterfeit just to make it disappear from the online market. They could be sued for this I assume, oh the irony! ;)
Well you know what? I got a reply from BT lawyers. Yup. And it's VERY interesting. First things first, here's the mail I sent them on Oct. 28th:
Dear Madam, Sir,
I received yesterday an e-mail from eBay telling me that my listing #304670886040 named VINTAGE deadstock 1991 BOLT THROWER Cenotaph backpatch back patch Popworld GRAIL had been deleted because it contravened VeRO rules on counterfeit items following your claim.
Please allow me to dispute this claim: the aforementioned backpatch which was up for auction is a very well-documented vintage licensed piece of merchandising, as was referenced by the pictures illustrating the listing (see a couple enclosed for reference). It's a vintage, second-hand patch coming from a c1990 private collection with unmistakable morphological features from the era (border stitch type, screenprint type, ...).
Consequently, I'm respectfully asking you to revise your judgement, and to please come back to eBay to drop the claim so as to restore my due rights to sell it.
To help clarify the situation, my clients have asked me to assist them in putting a stop to the illegal trading of bootleg merchandise.
Regrettably the item in question is an unauthorised product and therefore open to investigation.
My clients have never entered into any agreement with any company or third party that would give them the right to manufacture and sell merchandise by the band BOLT THROWER, both collectively and individually.
Hang on then - so read literally that would imply that there has never, ever been such a thing as legitimate BT merch if no company or third party has ever been given rights to make it?! Are we to believe the band spent the long evenings on tour sewing their own patches or printing their own shirts...?
That smells like bs. I got jo's email if you need to make her aware of this bullshittery? Speaking for myself this kind of insane crusade really lowers my interest in the band
Cheers! I don't really want to bother her with that, but do you think she'd consider this bs anyway since after all that's the band who's paying zealous lawyers to do this job? They must know said lawyers are diehards - I guess they asked them to be so, don't you think?
Following their logic and knowing the habits of the band, it'd mean that only merch' sold by themselves at shows would be legit. It is said that they do all their merch' themselves - it could mean they order directly from manufactureres/factories - in such a case, no licensing would be required indeed. But what's with all their licensed stuff then - and from big merchandisers/distributers with it, Direct Merchandising, Razamataz, etc? I'm not a BT concert-goer, but it'd be interesting to know if there are some among us who bought stuff at their stall in the early days, that was licensed nonetheless.
Well, that'd only make sense if they weren't aware that they were ceding their merchandising rights to Earache back in the day. Given the blood-sucking tendencies of 80s labels, there might be some truth to BT's stance on this one. I mean, stories of ripped off bands are legion, so - legal aspects aside - they might actually feel that this is illicit merchandise. But to be honest, this doesn't seem a very convincing theory. I'd rather guess that they do not want to lose themselves in investigating the provenience of the items offered on eBay. Quite a dick move.
Absolutely. That's for Warmaster only AFAIK but still, you got a full sleeve of Earache logos on the 1991 LS... I don't know what is this game they're playing, but it looks fairly nonsensical to me in the end.
All of the orange and yellow works really nice, would love to see the back when it is done.
This one is so insane!
🙏🏻🙏🏻
Less is more
Very stoned poster
That's a hot one you dropped here mate. Congratulations on this score 🤘One of the rarest Maiden pins out there 🤩
Looks fuckin cool, they're gonna be in Portland?? Tempting...
I like it
The print and fur is sick!
Sick
where did you get this patch?
Awesome man.
Thank you! I've thought the same thing haha, great blank though.
Big rush and deep purple gone
(35010)
Whispers of Death on
Oh yeah i heard theyve done that more often. Not sure if thats legally even allowed as this was an official issue. While i love the band, their shitstains they call lawyers really just ruin them for me a bit
Knightwhosayni on
Thanks for your feedback! Yeah, pretty unfair move if you ask me. I really hesitate to get back to them as eBay invites me too (If you believe an error has been made, you should contact the rights holder directly. If the rights holder accepts your dispute, ask them to contact us directly to reactivate your listing), even if I assume it'd be like talking to a wall.
bad_american1992 on
Chances are they have some dickless newbie on their legal team who just searches "Bolt Thrower Patch" on eBay and carpet bombs every result with the email you got. You could try and dispute it, in fact you'd probably succeed since that is an official BP and has the correct copyright info.
Knightwhosayni on
Might just be. I think I'll take my chances.
Southern Rocker on
They will shut down ANY BT patches placed on Ebay...not sure if they think they are all boots or what, they don't seem to care about shirts.
Knightwhosayni on
Very interesting, cheers - I just checked and weirdly enough indeed there are shirts by the shovelful but no patches. Looks like a partial, poor use of the eBay saved search function more and more... I was also wondering if they genuinely thought that every single patch listed on eBay was a boot, just because they have no clue.
MortalFate on
They care about shirts. After getting a IVth Crusade shirt with the album cover as a prinr, seller had his BT prints taken down.
Whispers of Death on
I have a contact directly if you need it, but likely its a wall. Its pretty unfair how much power these guys have on ebay
Knightwhosayni on
Very kind of you, thanks. I'll first try the address eBay sent me and see if I get a reply.
bad_american1992 on
Sell it here on TSS and save the 10% cut that eGay takes from each transaction!
Knightwhosayni on
You know I'm a TSS homeboy, I do most of my trades and sales here. My plan now is to dispute it to see if it leads me anywhere, and if it does in a positive way by any chance, to end the relisted auction immediately.
Knightwhosayni on
So I sent a dispute e-mail to BT legal reps this morning. Received the delivery receipt, but no response for now. I thought it'd deserve a meme.
MortalCoil138 on
Honestly love this meme, hope it goes well for you mate
Knightwhosayni on
Thanks man, appreciated!
meaningless
holy shit...well made dude, super funny and perfect pic for that meme..hahahahhaa
Knightwhosayni on
Cheers mate, glad you like it. ;)
RnReiner on
They've been doing that for years for no apparent reason. I have some sympathies when it comes down to some bloody scalpers selling concert merchandise by the lot for instance, but in your case I have no serious idea what their point might be.
Knightwhosayni on
Cheers for your input! So their lawyers are illegally flagging legit, vintage merchandise as counterfeit just to make it disappear from the online market. They could be sued for this I assume, oh the irony! ;)
Charles Gutierrez on
That's fuckin crazy lol. Why not try to sell it here?
Knightwhosayni on
This is what is bound to happen.
Knightwhosayni on
Well you know what? I got a reply from BT lawyers. Yup. And it's VERY interesting. First things first, here's the mail I sent them on Oct. 28th:
Dear Madam, Sir,
I received yesterday an e-mail from eBay telling me that my listing #304670886040 named VINTAGE deadstock 1991 BOLT THROWER Cenotaph backpatch back patch Popworld GRAIL had been deleted because it contravened VeRO rules on counterfeit items following your claim.
Please allow me to dispute this claim: the aforementioned backpatch which was up for auction is a very well-documented vintage licensed piece of merchandising, as was referenced by the pictures illustrating the listing (see a couple enclosed for reference). It's a vintage, second-hand patch coming from a c1990 private collection with unmistakable morphological features from the era (border stitch type, screenprint type, ...).
Consequently, I'm respectfully asking you to revise your judgement, and to please come back to eBay to drop the claim so as to restore my due rights to sell it.
Looking forward to hearing from you,
Regards.
Knightwhosayni on
And here's their reply:
Dear Mr. xxx
Thank you for your email.
To help clarify the situation, my clients have asked me to assist them in putting a stop to the illegal trading of bootleg merchandise.
Regrettably the item in question is an unauthorised product and therefore open to investigation.
My clients have never entered into any agreement with any company or third party that would give them the right to manufacture and sell merchandise by the band BOLT THROWER, both collectively and individually.
Regards,
Charles Gutierrez on
Wow that's so lame
Lord Cthulhu on
Hang on then - so read literally that would imply that there has never, ever been such a thing as legitimate BT merch if no company or third party has ever been given rights to make it?! Are we to believe the band spent the long evenings on tour sewing their own patches or printing their own shirts...?
samael6666 on
That smells like bs. I got jo's email if you need to make her aware of this bullshittery? Speaking for myself this kind of insane crusade really lowers my interest in the band
Knightwhosayni on
Cheers! I don't really want to bother her with that, but do you think she'd consider this bs anyway since after all that's the band who's paying zealous lawyers to do this job? They must know said lawyers are diehards - I guess they asked them to be so, don't you think?
Knightwhosayni on
Following their logic and knowing the habits of the band, it'd mean that only merch' sold by themselves at shows would be legit. It is said that they do all their merch' themselves - it could mean they order directly from manufactureres/factories - in such a case, no licensing would be required indeed. But what's with all their licensed stuff then - and from big merchandisers/distributers with it, Direct Merchandising, Razamataz, etc? I'm not a BT concert-goer, but it'd be interesting to know if there are some among us who bought stuff at their stall in the early days, that was licensed nonetheless.
RnReiner on
Well, that'd only make sense if they weren't aware that they were ceding their merchandising rights to Earache back in the day. Given the blood-sucking tendencies of 80s labels, there might be some truth to BT's stance on this one. I mean, stories of ripped off bands are legion, so - legal aspects aside - they might actually feel that this is illicit merchandise. But to be honest, this doesn't seem a very convincing theory. I'd rather guess that they do not want to lose themselves in investigating the provenience of the items offered on eBay. Quite a dick move.
Knightwhosayni on
Absolutely. That's for Warmaster only AFAIK but still, you got a full sleeve of Earache logos on the 1991 LS... I don't know what is this game they're playing, but it looks fairly nonsensical to me in the end.
bad_american1992 on
I wonder what their list of "legitimate" BT merch looks like
RnReiner on
Probably anything they sold at their shows, I'd reckon.