Sign of the Paramite

BeefCakeAssThrashSun, 04/03/2012 - 15:22

The traditional Paramite cross, made by the members for onstage use and home decoration.
Last picture was taken last night at Dead Area Fest in Amsterdamned.

Other Collectable

Not for sale or trade

Year: 2012

Bands:

ToxikAssault on Sun, 04/03/2012 - 16:42

Needs moar hanging Jeebus.

madbutcher

on Sun, 04/03/2012 - 18:52

Unholy ritual from greece?

Metallic_Storm on Sun, 04/03/2012 - 20:59

Very nice, what's that thing made out of?

BeefCakeAssThrash on Sun, 04/03/2012 - 21:14

thanx man, it's made out of hardwood. (teak, I believe, not sure)

ultmetal on Mon, 05/03/2012 - 04:08

Nice. The upside down cross, or the Cross of Peter, is a centuries old Christian symbol. The symbol comes from the history and tradition that Simon Peter was crucified upside down, as told by Origen of Alexandria. He did this because he didn't feel worthy to die in the same manner as His Lord who willingly gave up his life for the salvation of all. Good on you mate!

ToxikAssault on Mon, 05/03/2012 - 17:41

It's good to see that some religious people know their religion ;)
Around here church got Alice Cooper concert canceled and when people asked why, church answered something like "It says in the bible that Alice Cooper concert are not allowed, DUH?" -_-

ultmetal on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 02:38

Except that the uniformed churches that did that obviously don't know that Alice is a Christian has had Christian leanings in his albums ever since the mid-90's. His autobiography is a very open and clear Christian testimony.

non-existent user on Mon, 27/08/2012 - 17:22

lol@ uniformed churches. ;)
uninformed.

Deathcore.Is.No... on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 02:43

I don't mean to be one of those guys.. But actually the inverted cross is a very ancient symbol predating Christianity and its Jewish root by thousands of years. Its true meaning symbolizing the achievement of the Magnum Opus, when the chakras flip and the base, sacral, and manipura [solar] chakras are on the top half of the soul, and the crown, ajna [6th] and throat chakras move to the lower half.

ultmetal on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 03:12

Might be true, but it's still most commonly known and referred to as "The Cross of Peter" just like the upright cross was used for centuries, but is now mostly known as a Christian symbol. Pre-dating Christianity doesn't mean much, except that it has more than one meaning. Lots of symbols have other meanings. The Nazi-SS is a good example as it is now known by it's Nazi meaning, but had other meanings and uses before Hitler's Reich. I find it more amusing that a lot of metal kids who wear upside down crosses have no idea of it's meaning and think it's some anti-Christian symbol, when in fact the opposite is true.

non-existent user on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 19:50

that's true. it can also be seen as an inversion of the cross and thus anti christianity. symbols by themselves have no meaning. meanings are what people give to them. just like the swastika is also used as a buddhist symbol in asia. all perspective and interpretation.

ultmetal on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 20:13

I agree with you about symbols being meaningless in and of themselves. I think think the swastika is also used in Native American culture somehow. I live in New Mexico and I know I've seen it used in buildings and such.

BlueEyedBeast on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 20:39

Swastikas are found in many cultures around the world in one form or another. Not really sure what you're trying to say about the runes used by Hitler's regime though.
If you're saying that their NS association is more relevant than their original meaning simply because that's what most people think of when they see it (which it seems to me that you are), then as a believer in the Northern Tradition, I have issue with that.

ultmetal on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 23:21

I wasn't implying anything other than symbols are meaningless without the meaning put on them by different culture, people, etc.

FarFarNorth on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 20:57

16th-17th century Icelandic magic grimoires (a couple of them survived) have a symbol called "hammer of Thor", and it resembles a swastika, or a cross with curved edges (http://209.126.240.198/images_products/698_big.jpg) This is from the same collection that the famous Ægishjálmur comes from. Ironically... this latter symbol has been so often used in (neo)pagan contexts and seen as something truly natively Norse, yet few people realize that the Icelandic grimoires where these symbols come from have been heavily influenced by Christianity, invoking saints alongside Norse gods and using Kabbalistic symbols/terms alongside runes. Anything obscure that reached Iceland from Europe was thrown into the mix. Yep, it's what particular people make of otherwise empty symbols that constructs particular meanings.

BlueEyedBeast on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 22:11

"Yep, it's what particular people make of otherwise empty symbols that constructs particular meanings."
This is the most sensible thing said in this thread yet.

BeefCakeAssThrash on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 22:39

I believe I tried to make that point clear numerous times here in my upload, but yeah it's absolutely spot on!

BlueEyedBeast on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 22:44

It is rather unfortunate to see such a thread derailed in such a way. But on to the true subject at hand; it's a neat stage prop, and you look awesome wielding it. :)

BeefCakeAssThrash on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 23:11

thanx dude! and yeah.. to think I actually read all these comments haha xD

ultmetal on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 23:23

I didn't think it was derailed at all. It made for a great discussion that stayed civil and intelligent.

BlueEyedBeast on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 22:50

P.S.
I didn't scroll down far enough to see that you had pretty much posted the same thing I responded to. I apologize for being a lazy asshole...

BeefCakeAssThrash on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 23:04

nono it's okay man! xD the important thing is that we can agree on this!

ultmetal on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 03:13

ACK! Double post.

mayhempunk666 on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 03:16

double post

whoops you beat me to it

Adrian on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 03:10

There's even one behind the pope's chair because Peter was viewed as the first pope!

mayhempunk666 on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 03:12

shoulda gone king diamond style and used two bones man......

Plague on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 03:18

Well just like it HAD a previous meaning before Christianity, I think that its Christian meaning is long gone and now it's been changed to represent anti-Christianity. Can't go around wearing an swastika (as this was discussed before) w/o ppl getting a Nazi message, so same with this... it's def got a non christian conotation.

ultmetal on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 03:32

It's still commonly used in the Catholic church. The pope displays a large inverted cross on his chair, or throne, or whatever it's called. (I'm not Catholic.) However, the Christian story of Peter is very well know throughout the church. I have Christian death metal albums with the inverted cross on it.

BruteAxe2011 on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 20:32

Possession used the inverted cross prominently on the cover of their very limited 3 inch CD "Scourge and Fire". They also use in their logo one inverted cross, and one standing upright. They were a band that was extremely vocal about their Christianity before they split up. A couple of the members reformed and put together the Christian black metal band Frost Like Ashes.

ultmetal on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 20:35

Yes, I have that Possession 3" EP.

BruteAxe2011 on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 20:41

Possession were an incredible band! Did you get yours as a freebie with the order of "Eternally Haunt"?

ultmetal on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 21:40

I think I might have. I have it for a decade or more. I actually have two copies.

Adrian on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 23:14

Nice to see someone talking about Possession! Rarely see them mentioned anywhere!

I have Unmentionable Suffering and Eternal Haunt, however am lacking that final release.

Great band though

BruteAxe2011 on Sat, 26/05/2012 - 00:07

If you are into Possession and black metal, definitely check out Frost Like Ashes.

Yeah, Possession was incredible. My first band had the good fortune to open up for them back in the day. I don't have Unmentionable Suffering, but I have Eternally Haunt and Scourge and Fire. I have been looking for that first one to make my collection complete. Not interested in any kind of trade are you? LOL PM me if you might be.

Adrian on Sat, 26/05/2012 - 00:41

Oops, just realized it's actually called Unnameable Suffering. Haha no I'm no interested in trading that one, I actually slightly prefer it to the Eternally Haunt album.

Not much a fan of black metal, but I did hear some Frost Like Ashes before and liked it since it sounded a bit similar to Possession

BruteAxe2011 on Sat, 26/05/2012 - 01:42

Ugh! That puts egg on both our faces, 'cause I should have known enough to correct the mistake. LOL You're right. It is Unnameable Suffering.

Oops!

doyle92 on Mon, 27/08/2012 - 18:11

I understand your point, but the swastika, other than the symbol of the OM is the most precious and sacred symbols in the Hindu religion, among other Asian religions and civilizations throughout history,
and it is used and worn freely is most Asian community's and countries.
I believe there are several meanings for the Inverted crucifix,
Its just a matter of perspective i believe.
Symbols always have different meanings.

mayhempunk666 on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 03:22

i think overall using the inverted cross as a symbol is overdone and run of the mill, but the only real way to attempt to imply any form of anti-christian sentiment is to display a full inverted-crucifix with the little jesus on in and all. Even then it's still a little run of the mill.

unless of course being used for cheese factor, like i think you are doing here

Plague on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 03:31

Well, then how we gonna express our anti christian feelings if we can't use an inverted cross?

ultmetal on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 03:40

What have Christians or Christ done to you that you want to wear anti-Christian symbols, or is it just a 'cool', 'metal' thing to be anti-Christian? I don't care for many religions but I have no desire to wear symbols to show my disinterest.

mayhempunk666 on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 04:15

just because you have no desire to wear symbols showing your disinterest in things you don't agree with doesn't mean he has to feel the same way. Not that you are saying that, but your statement would lead one to that assumption.

But that aside you potentially opened the black gate of mordor with your question "What have Christians or Christ done to you that you want to be wear anti-Christian symbols, or is it just a 'cool', 'metal' thing to be anti-Christian?"

here is my answer, in two parts because you posed a question within a question.

1. Jesus and Christians are two fully separate things(which im sure you agree with) Based on the bible, Jesus was an overall good guy who preached do unto others as you want done unto you and how we should accept people etc etc.

Christians(most that i have seen) are nothing like this. They stand on soap boxes and do nothing but look down on non-christians, preach close-minded vitriolic hatred towards all who act and live in ways the that bible condemns(ignoring the fact that the new testament buys that all back, sells it again, and then once more buys it back. Along with ignoring the parts they don't fully agree with, because god will forgive them for some reason but not the people they disagree with).

i believe it was Ghandi who said "i like christ, but i hate christians. Christians are nothing like christ" or something along those lines. i don't want to google it right now.

2. What have christians done to you that you want to wear anti christian symbols, or is it just a 'cool', 'metal' thing to be anti christian? (in two parts also)

At the age of 11 when i began to doubt the teachings of the Catholic Church(i was raised Roman Catholic) i fully understood voicing my opinions in Religious Ed class would be a figurative death sentence from my peers, the teacher, and my parents. So for the next three years i stayed quiet until my confirmation when i could make my break away from the church.

When i was about 14 and starting high school, my family began attending a non domination christian church(where about 80% of the people in my town attend) and forcibly sent me to its teen youth group...While there my disagreement with Catholicism alone slowly grew into a disagreement with the whole Christian philosophy. I just simply didn't agree with it, had no ill will towards those who followed it, but it just wasn't for me.

For my first two years of high school, i was subjected to nothing but merciless harassment by the christian population of my school for no other reason then i didnt believe in god, and i didn't agree with the bible(being a visible metalhead didn't help much either, but thats beside the point). Some of my favorite memories were these: Having people write devil worshipper on my papers(trivial at best, not really all that offensive) threats of physical violence, at one point being told "you arent a christian, therefore your opinions and thoughts shouldnt and dont matter" by a girl in one of my classes, and at one point, simply being referred to as "sub-human".

This, and other anecdotal stories involving things my friends had to go through(one was thrown out of his home when he was 13 because he was bi-sexual and his parents said god doesnt love gays so they wont either) are the reasons why i do hate christians(with the exception of a few). I tend to not wear anti-christian symbols on my clothing, with the exception of a pentagram or sigil of the baphomet thats used in a band logo, but have no issue with someone who wants to make it a point to always wear anti-christian symbols, for whatever reason. Especially since in society its fully ok for christians to wear pro christian symbols anywhere they go.

bleeeeeh my mind hurts

ultmetal on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 04:30

Sorry to read about your bad experiences with religious people and those who claim to be Christians. It's sad to read about people persecuting you for having different beliefs. It goes both ways though. Christians through the ages have been persecuted and martyred for their beliefs, which is still happening in many countries. People will hate.

I myself am a Christian and try my best not to be a bad example. My experience in the church has been very different. In the worst of times, the people from the church have been there for us. I've seen them do some great things for people in need. Then again, I've been judged by some Christians who think my music is "Satanic", think my long hair is 'sinful', don't like the way I dress, etc. Oh well, that's their problem, not mine.

Thanks for sharing.

ultmetal on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 03:48

An Interesting QUOTE:
"If those Satanists had paid attention in Sunday school, they would probably realize that the inverted cross is actually the personal trademark of Saint Peter, the first Pope, and one of the most revered figures in Catholic lore. When Peter was martyred by crucifixion he was said to have requested to be crucified upside down because he didn't feel worthy of dying the same way as Jesus. As a result, many dyed-in-the-wool Catholics actually consider the inverted cross to be a more acceptable thing to attach to your tacky jewelry than a regular right-way-up one."

VoiceOfTheSoul on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 04:03

and I suppose if the majority of those offended by the inverted cross would've payed attention in Sunday school, they'd realize that too hahaha

ultmetal on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 04:18

True. Haha! But then again, many who claim to be Christians don't know much about what they say they believe. Case in point, the church that had the Alice Cooper concert banned.

LaUlvenDrepe on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 04:22

I for one like this.

Many people do in fact use this as a tool to "be metal" in an effort to feel cool, but isn't that a factor for almost every symbol? I have known FAAAAAAR more false "Christians" who "believe" in God just because they feel they are suppose to, and because they fear standing out than I have known so-called "Satanists" who use this in the opposite direction in an effort TO stand out. I despise every single fucking religion in the known world, let that be known. I do have some religions that I tolerate more than others, out of respect. However, I feel that many people don't really understand why some of us hate Christianity as much as we do...

Sure, there are obvious factors in known history, i.e. the desecration of every other religion/beliefs or way of life that they basically disagreed with, when Christianity was in it's infancy. From it's beginnings, it was being forced upon people, shoved down their throats.

But you know what? I don't buy into this bullshit. Yes, it is true that it was a flawed and tainted religion from the get go, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend like that affects me. I live in the year 2012, in this generation. The ruins of other historical beliefs by the hands of Christianity does not affect ME in the least bit.

What does affect me is that for my entire childhood it was being forced upon me. Obviously not in the matter of olden times, but it was annoying to say the least nonetheless. The fact that people went crazy with retardation when I told them that I hated everything God stood for, and also that I had to hear the disbelief in their voices every day when they said "how can you not believe in God? You HAVE to believe in him, you just do" didn't exactly help. This is why I dislike religion, and especially Christianity. Not because of what they have done and continue to do to others, but because it affected me in some point of my life, as is the case with many others.

I hate it because it is a part of my existence, nothing more, nothing less. This basically attracts me to the adversary of Christian morals (Satan), but of course not as a religious belief in any way, just as an interesting character. Either way, that is why I feel right when I wear or use anti-Christian symbols. Hell... I have some tattooed, and there is plenty more to come.

VoiceOfTheSoul on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 04:36

Un-Holy Waaaaarrrrrrsssssss *Friedman solo*

BeefCakeAssThrash is probably like... fuuuuuuuuuck so much email spam right now.

mayhempunk666 on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 04:39

bahahahahaha

ultmetal on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 04:55

Unholy Metal Spam!

BeefCakeAssThrash on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 12:00

I actually am haha! from 6 to 30 comments in just one day like wtf??

meaningless

on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 23:28

hahaha..so true :D

tabarnak on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 05:51

fuck all the religious things

NeedToKill on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 06:31

Why I put a cross buster (Bad Religion) patch on my vest. :D

BeefCakeAssThrash on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 12:35

I love how some people take this so seriously. From what I know, my band uses these crosses onstage for years.

Sure, there might be so many different stories behind the inverted cross, but part of being yourself is giving your own meaning to symbols or any other thing for that matter, is what I believe (STAND for what you are willing to stand for!). I don't give a single dying fuck about what religious background it may have, I was raised in a christian neighbourhood where christianity was shoved down our throats from elementary school to adulthood (it's a little less now, used to be worse) an inverted cross is a symbol of power to me, nothing more. A symbol that lets me know I'm not like the rest of the sheep following the sheperds every call, just because it's the "normal" thing to do (don't get me wrong, if you're christian because you wanna put your faith in a higher power, all the respect to you for being what you wanna be). Be yourself, don't use these crosses, or any other symbols (religious or not) if they don't have meaning to you or if you do it just to look true evil satanic kult goatsodomizer.

This is exactly why the title is Sign of the Paramite, and not evil satanic cross or sum shit like that..

BeefCakeAssThrash on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 12:42

haha good question, let's see...

we played a 13 song setlist in Amsterdam, we left one out because it was still unfinished, then there's 2 from the earlier demo that we don't play. (World Wide Death and Eternal Punishment) sums it up to 16 songs since 2008! :P
can't wait to record the full-lenght haha! :D songs like The Skullfucker, Rule With the Fist, Sadistic Rotting Death and Armies of the Living Dead are sure to make every Christmas party with the family complete! :D

NekroDesekrator666 on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 22:31

Nice! :P So when is your album coming out??

BeefCakeAssThrash on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 22:35

Can't say too much right now :P we're working very very hard! It'll be done this year tho, thanx for the interest, mate!

Tico Tyrant on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 23:22

I like this because: It's simple and it get's to the point, by modern definitions and usage...this inverted crucifix is hardly out of line. This has nothing to do with false satanism or theism at all, this merely creates a visual and lasting impact, in other words...it creates a reaction.

>That being said, I find this symbol to be archaic and out of touch 90% of the time, not always..but often. I would agree, that the cross(not inverted) itself predates most abrahmic theism and the inverted version of this symbol has ties to some concepts regarding chakra theories which I believe 'Deathcore is not metal'(user) was touching on.

I guess in an "ideal metal world" or any social existence for that matter, we cannot expect to take any certain meaning of the cross that is derived from theistic views(including the title of "st peters cross") and attempt to call that logical validity when labeling or historically defining such symbols.Nor should we go to those lengths of obscure morality when dealing with music. It seems foolish to over think it.... In the same line of thought, I find the turned cross to be a bit of an odd phenomenon within Black Metal, but still I can see it's place as reasonable....to a certain degree, let alone in thrash or other metal. Theism nor Polytheism nor Satanism or Luciferianism, etc none of those paths in life can pretend to truly hold any believable ground on such an old symbol that is still being explored in countless ways, even separated from christianity and judaism itself....unless the soul and the other images related to it can somehow completely corroborate a theory.Either way it provokes a response and ultimately...that can either be positive for the message of the music or negative, but it creates a reaction.

Tico Tyrant on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 23:22

I think you are using a symbol in which the band will never need to rely on, but creates a sort of sense within stage presence and that's smart thinking!

For my purposes, outside of music or music related, I prefer sigils and symbols relating to the sun, the moon, my soul, nature, animals and other things.....*However*, I do have one inverted crucifix, it is highly altered other than just being inverted. Altering an inverted crucifix *could* add a deeper meaning behind the visual perception of your cross here, but it's not required...this is merely my idea...

-So, fore example: Mine is a cross with the false messiah, however, his hands are bound by small scale barbed wire,a pair of goat horns lie at the top of the central staff and instead of "Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum'(I.N.R.I) I created a brass plate with the letters "L.I.E.S"

Other than this, I have nothing else to add in terms of petty religious debate, after all....if people really wanted to know what I thought in full depth, they would have to talk to me, about where I grew up and how I was directly affected...Alternatively, there's no need to make a big deal out of something that's been done before.

Best of luck to the crew of Paramite! Keep desecrating minds and playing wicked shows.

ultmetal on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 23:27

Sorry if people thought this was a 'religious debate'. I thought it was just an insightful discussion among people with differing beliefs. Thought it stayed very civil. I appreciated people's honest replies. Thanks for sharing yours Tico.

Tico Tyrant on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 23:33

N Indeed I think it is insightful discussion(I agree with you), but most insightful discussion does tend to have a tone of 'debate' to it, at least visually speaking, after a while. However, I think that's only natural, but I'm still reading over what everyone said. Either way it's good t shirt slayer has thinking people and not just a bunch of people who would say nothing! haha....that wouldn't be good.

BeefCakeAssThrash on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 23:36

time and time again, your walls of text prove you have the needed knowledge to support your opinion 110%! thank you for your enlightening words and sharing your opinion with us. finally someone that makes sense in the religious debate on this page! I'd love to see the cross you altered, man. any chance you can upload it on here? :D cheers!!!

Tico Tyrant on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 23:38

hmnn...yeah I guess I will upload it. I need to borrow a camera to do so...I kind of fucked my camera up. I actually think my walls of text are a weakness of mine, but I can see lots of people above me were talking a lot,so hopefully your inbox isn't going to get too cluttered with updates from this post ahaha.

Plague on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 23:41

Yeah, upload a pic wen u can. Sounds interesting.

BeefCakeAssThrash on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 23:44

I think you clarify your points very good and that's everything but a weakness! looking forward to the upload haha. my inbox is raped anyways so I don't really care hehe

Tico Tyrant on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 23:24

I meant to give 4 stars as I don't completely like it, but you ended up with 5 haha...ah well, whatever, cool that it's hand made as well..so I'll let you have that 5th flame for workmanship :)

BeefCakeAssThrash on Tue, 06/03/2012 - 23:37

oh...well.. thank you haha!

IronMason on Thu, 15/03/2012 - 06:44

Wow so much reading in this,It's like mini short stories.Anywhoo's goodshit as usual BeefCakeAssThrash,I look forward to hearing more from Paramite. :D

BeefCakeAssThrash on Thu, 15/03/2012 - 15:51

Thank youuuuu! ::)

IronBound5 on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 20:23

i think that the inverted cross is fucking wicked. who gives a shit what it does or dosent mean. i find it cool and somtimes funny.

BeefCakeAssThrash on Sat, 26/05/2012 - 00:10

FarFarNorth on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 21:16

5 flames for DIY dramatic visual stage props, always

BeefCakeAssThrash on Fri, 25/05/2012 - 21:36

thanx mate! ^^

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