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Forums > All other metal related talk..

Do you think "Traditional Metal" is a pointless term?

Joel
Thu, 17/04/2014 - 19:36

I do. I mean, how do you even go about wrestling with a term like that? First you'd have to break everything down by particular style (sub-genre) of Metal, then you'd probably have to break everything down even further by defining regional sounds, and then we'd all have a non-stop debate about what constitutes a "traditional" style of Metal. Could traditional fully-formed Black Metal distinct from Heavy Metal and Thrash Metal/Speed Metal mean sounding like Bathory's The Return? What about "Traditional Doom Metal"? Could that mean sounding like early 70's Black Sabbath (especially the song of the same name)? Metal is like silly putty. You can shape it however you want and you can do whatever you want with it. Metal is an amorphous, always changing entity by nature 'cuz you know...fuck rules in Metal. It's constantly being shaped in countless different ways. I don't think a traditional form of Metal has ever existed, but that's just me.


LaUlvenDrepe's picture

I don't hear or read that term much (thankfully!), to be honest, but yeah... I agree 100%. It is a completely ridiculous term for all of the reasons you just explained.

Joel's picture

Thanks. It just seems like a waste of time to me.

Stiopa's picture

Don't prepare for a debate with me, 'cuz I'll be gone in a minute or two, but that's my 2 cents:

Is Black Sabbath Traditional Doom Metal? No, not only in my honest opinion calling them Doom is bullshit, but even if, they're rather proto-Doom if we want serious descriptions. When we add "traditional" to the genre, we mean, that the band's sound is as close to the genre's core as possible, in case of Doom it should be, for example, Pentagram or Saint Vitus, or any other bands, which sound can't be mistaken with anything else than the genre. If a band follow it's older idols in making music, then we can call it traditional, if it adds something new to the music, we don't. New genres are created by adding new things.

It's cool BTW that You add such discussions here, keep it up!

Joel's picture

All valid points. I would agree with you that, for example, albums like Relentless and Death Penalty are extremely orthodox Doom Metal, but Epicus Doomicus Metallicus on the other hand? Not so much. Thanks for the positive remark by the way! I'm inquisitive by nature. That's why I address these topics floating around in my brain by bringing them up on TSS.

Stiopa's picture

Candlemass are Epic Doom Metal, While Heaven Wept- Epic Progressive Power/Doom Metal :P

Joel's picture

I'll have to check out While Heaven Wept.

Stiopa's picture
Joel's picture

Thanks. This is pretty decent.

Stiopa's picture

To each his own.

gizter's picture

i am with stiopa,
its easier to understant exactly what music someone is talking about this way. by just saying ''doom'' people could think about all the subgenres that are out there today, and some of those might not be what you were referring to. so you can just say funeral doom when you want to talk about bands like Asunder or Funeralium, or say stoner doom for bands like Electric Wizard, and use traditional doom for bands like Pentagram, Paul Chain etc.
its not making things more complicated, its doing the exact opposite. it makes clear exactly what you are talking about.

Joel's picture

Yeah, that's an interesting way of putting it. I can understand that.

maidenfan620's picture

I usually don't like or use ultra-specific terms such as what gizter was saying about stoner doom or funeral doom, I always thought it was silly, but it does make sense to use them if the person you're talking to doesn't know exactly what bands you're talking about. However, I feel like saying "traditional" heavy metal could still be too broad IF you're trying to be specific. Mainly because there are quite a few bands I feel that fall into that category that are all very different (Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Tygers of Pan Tang, etc.)
I don't know, splitting sub-genres into sub-sub-genres still seems funny to me but again, I guess they're needed if you want to be super specific. On the other hand, it's really annoying when you go onto other forums and see kids describe a band as "Blackened Progressive Technical Thrash Metal" ya know?

Joel's picture

Excessive categorization can be absurd, I know what you're talking about.

KorgullTheExterminator's picture

Agreed.

Johnny-Eyeball's picture

I think 'heavy metal' to denote a sub-genre is even more pointless a term. Heavy metal is not a sub genre or a style. Heavy metal IS the genre as a whole. I have to laugh when people claim otherwise.

Joel's picture

Well, you can laugh at me for claiming otherwise but as a whole it's just called Metal. This is "Black" Metal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdYu82fGNko

This is "Heavy" Metal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrDTGm3NcMM

This is "Death" Metal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjlwuCYbVtU

See where I'm coming from?

Kuivausrumpu's picture

People like you have made it into a "whole", because you people don't bother to learn the difference between heavy metal and let's have some great example hmm.. maybe metalcore. Yes even metalcore is being called heavy metal, because such ignorance towards the term heavy metal. So laugh all you want, but in the end you're the one who should be the one who gets the laughs..

nwobhmbanger's picture

Like it or not, metalcore and deathcore ARE metal genres. There's a big difference between older metalcore (closer to hardcore punk/crossover thrash metal) and modern metalcore (usually called screamo).

Kuivausrumpu's picture

I never said anything them not being metal, just pointing out that they are not _heavy metal_

nwobhmbanger's picture

Yes, because anything that's over a decade or two ago can be considered "traditional metal" (e.g. nu metal).

How about...just playing metal? Quit it with the hipster nonsense of being "tr00" to your fans or friends.

Jimmh's picture

I prefer heavy rock.

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