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Forums > All other metal related talk..

the Bootleg v/s Original thing.....

DevilzForce
Fri, 28/11/2014 - 20:09

just my two cents, do with it as you will, but this is meant to spark discussion and to share opinions ;)

i am completely over the ''original patches'' crap !
i keep hearing the arguement that if you do not own the original patch you are not metal, that you are not true enough, that you are not supporting a band...
let's burst the bubble here: NEITHER DO YOU !!!!
only the people that bought these patches WHEN THEY CAME OUT can claim that ! people that buy ''original patches'' online buy these second hand, third hand, fourth hand and so on..... the band sees nothing from that !!!! so how can one claim that not having a original patch is ''not supporting a band'' ??
people with bootleg support a band still, by putting the logo out there (people with rebought patches are no better) .
whatever happened to having a jacket with bands because you like the bands, love them and metal in general??? when did the ''metal police'' take over??!
cuz now you have people in jackets full of re-bought patches calling people that refuse to pay insane ammounts for a patch ''fake'', being laughed at or worse....

personally i get sickened by the mere thought of these people.... everyone in metal is in it for the love of metal, the brotherhood and comradery and so on.... and now the concerts,bars and internet have changed... into a marketplace where people weasle other people out of huge ammounts of money so they won't feel excluded by the people that they claim to call ''brothers''......

i do have to make an exception for people that make bootlegs and claim the are the real deal... you can go to hell and die !! and for the true collectors of course ;)

but just in general: WHAT HAPPENED?!
why are we judging people on what kind of patches they have on their jackets? did we become ''them'' ?

i personally just buy patches i like, being original or bootleg because i love a specific patch for the band or it's art... not because it's an ''original'', the bootlegd are out there because people can't afford the insane prices people want for a copyright.... for this specific reason i put my new japanese nunslaughter backpatch on my new vest under construction, cuz i support a band, not a copyright ! eventhough this was an original (done with permission) ;)

i hope you guys get where i'm going with this.... didn't mean to rant, but this shit gets to me.......

input thoughts/discussion here \/


DevilzForce's picture

nope, no ''ultimate fan'' or nothing like that.... just a metal guy with an opinion on something that seems to be geting way too important these days ;) it just annoys me that people with some boots on their vest get rated down on here and on festivals/real life by ''metalfans'' for all the wrong reasons....

i do however agree to most of your story, i just felt that this was something that needed to be said ;)

cheers to you too !

Daniel Sodomaniac's picture

We all (some of us anyway) love the cult of old school Metal, you know the denim and the leather right?!
I`m totally into that stuff myself, long hair headbanging beer drinking hellraising Heavy Metal.
Today the scene is very "elitist" and pretentious in many ways, you have to listen to the "right" bands, the more obscure they are the better.
It seems some of the people try to find their first leather jacket before they are actually into any bands.
Maybe all this crap about spending a fortune on original merch has something to do with that?
I`ve meet SO many people during the last 20 years claming to be real diehard rockers but they vanish in the wind after a very short time.
You should just visit the Swedish festival "Muskelrock" and see for yourself hahahaha!
A very nice festival and so on but the crowd is very much about the fashion and very little about the passion for the music.
How`s that for a rhyme :)?
Love your music, support the scene, be nice, take care, over and out CHEERS!

meaningless's picture

its pretty interesting...the point with the Muskelrock. I have already heard from many sides..that in Sweden is atm a lot about fashion..and not music (anymore). I always thought Sweden is THE country for metalheads..full of 'true' metalheads..but it seems the fashion/eletist things is everywhere atm...even in Sweden... sad thing.
But hey..i dont care...what all others do..haha..

Axehead's picture

this is a valid subject raising some great points..
metal is in the blood & in the heart..anyone who thinks its about how you look or a patch you wear doesnt know jack shit..its all about the music and always has for me but i still wear a battle vest to shows and i am now 51 years old..
of coarse there will always be elitists when it comes to rare merch but that comes down to money and not everyone can have the rare stuff,im a collector from way back and appreciate the rare patches but i also like bootlegs and buy them if i like them..i just bought the Iron Maiden Vikings boot so if someone thinks im not metal enough because i bought that one i would tell them to go fuck a goat!!

Nater90's picture

Very well put by all, Laughed hard at Axe "Tell them to go fuck a goat" +1 to that dude!

I am half and half with it, Some of the original patches look shit so I'd sway towards a bootleg if it looks better! For me as long as I like the looks of the patch I couldn't careless real or not. I support the bands that inspire and mean a lot to me, Hell most of my band shirts are bootlegs because when I started to buy I couldn't afford the real deal, But they still look kick ass so I don't give a fuck. At the end of the day I will buy what ever merch I want that show I love a band. People can bag shit out, give me shit about not staying "true" because not all my stuff is original but to me staying true is voicing my opinion that I love a particular band and can back up why, Without bootlegs my Mayhem / Morbid tribute wouldn't be what it is (By the way keep eye out within next couple weeks I shall be posting! its near completion) I like the band getting money for something I buy so that's why I buy CD's! As for merch I doubt that they'd get a great deal.

When I saw Carcass in June Jeff said "170 Russell Street...Great to be back right behind China-Town! Ya' know how I know that? All the bootleg t shirts in the audience!" He didn't care one bit. He then introduced they were going to play some stuff of their new album and openly said if you haven't heard it you need to and said "I don't care if you download it"

I guess it will vary from band to band if they are against bootlegging of their artwork, But I am sure as hell back in the day the bands that inspired them they would have done a very similar thing. Bootlegging will always be around because its gone on for so long now its like fucking cancer! But as long as you show the passion you have for music who gives a rats ass!

LaUlvenDrepe's picture

I haven't exactly encountered this particular problem (or if I have I guess I haven't payed much attention) since I don't generally care for patches all that much, or practically at all... (not that I have anything against them, just not for me). Still, as much as I hate to say it, it doesn't really surprise me in the least bit that people argue and fight over the dumbest and slightest of the most minuscule "problems" such as this one. This is about as ridiculous as it gets, but then again... it's humanity. This is the way it will always be, which is why I don't believe in a general "brotherhood" in any way, shape, or form... metal, or otherwise. We have groups of selective people in our lives which we care for when we get to know, but it's a shallow premise to call a love of metal anything other than that, and to call it a code or brotherhood just simply doesn't make sense to me anymore since most of these people wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. The person you might least expect to want to help you may act more like a brother or sister than an actual family member might, taste in music has nothing to do with it.

I LOVE metal, and I love the people who earn my admiration... just never for simply ONLY loving metal themselves.

Judas Priestess's picture

I have no problem whether a patch is a bootleg or not, just as long as the seller is honest about it. Same goes for CDs/LPs. I've ran into a few fake CDs before which piss me off because the previous owner tries to pass it off as an original. As far as paying loads of money for pieces of cloth, that's not for me. To an extend I understand why people prefer originals, as a collector's standpoint. But the fact that some original AND bootleg patches are now "worth" more that the album's 1st pressings is a bit ridiculous. To each their own, of course.

As long as I can reasonably represent the bands/albums I like on my vests I'm satisfied. I just wish that there were more bootlegs of bands that have little to no patches. How many Priest/Maiden/Slayer patches do we need? lol

meaningless's picture

very well said, i agree with all ur points my friend! ..and this original vs. bootleg thing..is a point i always had/and still smile here on TSS when i see some comments. ...rating a patch, a shirt.or whatever with 1 flame and saying: bah..its a bootleg.
i mean..c'mon..haha..wtf. it looks good? then everything is fine. Maybe i dont mind/bother with bootlegs because im a old fart.

Back in days, when i started to listen Metal..there was no internet, there where no Merchandise Shops. Even when EMP started..i wasnt able to order something there (and im from Austria) just because of the borders between Germany and Austria.
Fuck...we all were happy to get BOOTLEGs at least! ...no idea if this word (bootleg) were existing at this time.., no idea sorry ;)

And another point..which makes me crazy about this is the fact: whats up with merch of bands..who dont exist anymore..lets say since 20-25 years?? I mean..there is no official merch anymore. If some1 have a nice idea for merch...print it..and sell it..why not?! Yes...i would buy it.
Because - there is no official contact for any official merch. ....and..: is it still a bootleg then? ..when the band dont exist anymore..AND (lets say) they NEVER HAD any shirts? we call that bootleg too?...no idea..hahaha..

I could talk about this original vs. bootleg thing for hours..but i think my english isnt that great to spam here like crazy ;) hahahaha

meaningless's picture

oh ..oh..but 1 more thing anyway: i love comments like: The kutte is great..but wth is with the Offspring/Slipknot/*whatever* patch on it?!
...haha..fuck it...u like them? put a patch on ur kutte and go head :D
If Cinderella would have a good patch..i would placed it between my Bolt Thrower and my Autopsy patch..and i would give a fuck what others say..haha
..but sadly they have not rly a cool patch.. ;(

powermetaller's picture

Also ich find den Night Songs eigentlich ganz schick.

Außerdem sind Cinderella grandios!

meaningless's picture

ist das der mit dem Männchen und den Blitzen drauf? (oder verwechsel ich da was mit wasp?) ..also falls es der ist..., der is wohl nett..aber gefällt mir nicht so gut wie andere patches :)

powermetaller's picture

Genau der.

Tja, ich hab irgendwie ne Vorliebe für beknackte Motive und bescheuerte Farben :D

doomtilldeath's picture

Like the other users already said, it doesn't matter if it's a boot or original as long as it looks good.

And judging people for not having original merch is something I really don't understand.

Personally for me, I like collecting original patches of my favourite albums / artists because the collection can be finished.

But for shirts, I don't really care. It's nice to have some original shirts because usually they look really great, but if the original goes for too much money and there is no official re-print ( or if it's ugly ) I get a bootleg. And I wear it proudly.

whiteravenmetal's picture

couldn't be more agree with you, people don't support shit by buying resale patches, only greedy bastards who saw their chance with this stupid trend. I'm a designer, that's what counts to me, sure old school patch are equal to great design, but that also goes for bootlegs. Put the whole musical concept of a band in a little piece of fabric sure is an interesting thing to put on you, but at the end is just that, fabric. I will love to own all the originals but I strongly refuse to pay insane amounts of money. The trend must end someday.

Stathis's picture

Fuck patches in general !
Too many kids in this site who don't even have a record of the bands they are "supporting" but they spend their money on patches because they think wearing a battle jacket makes them look metal...

RavenEffect's picture

I can't stop imagining Vinnie Jones saying this, it's hilarious

but yeah man, you pretty much sum it up in 3 lines.

g.dresche's picture

fuck me, wanting originals of XY for the historical value seems absolutely appropriate to me but what all of you people report is quite outrageous. i was under the impression, that people with $ instead of eyes went after patches for the plain resale value but maybe thats a more or less US exclusive phenomenon (ebay silverruins etc.). and just now, don't even know why not before, i realise that there actually could be people willing to spend this amount of collectors money just for fashion. didn't think of pop artists 'battle jackets' as something actually influential. for real, if you want to display with expensive gear it's fine just get your average 500 quid burberry shirt but stop taking things off of a subculture, wtf

EvilPriest's picture

There's a lot of hate towards chinapatch out there, my friend Nocturnospoko got bashed because he possesses quite a lot. It seems like some people spent a long time searching for specific patches and spent a lot of money to get them and they can't stand the fact that you can find some kickass patches for a quite cheap price.

Taikon's picture

I usually favour originals over bootlegs if they're coming straight from the band's label or shop for obvious reasons. Couldn't care less about vintage patches unless they look cool, and I agree with you on the rest. I never understood the point of paying 30 euro on an original vintage patch when the only thing you're supporting by doing that is leeches hoarding limited patches for profit. I have bootlegs on my vest and I'll laugh at the face of whoever tries to give me a hard time for it, and so should anyone else.

Kerry Draconis's picture

Well said, I wish I couldve gotten my hands on some ov the older bands and their merch but I can't and it's almost impossible to find stuff in good condition, whatever original stuff I can get is great, I just can't understand the extreme some go to in trying to class others as "not metal enough" .. sounds like they're insecure about something, but at the end ov the day buying band merch and music definitely shows you're supporting them none the less.

RavenEffect's picture

For quite a while I thought the term "China Boot" was used to describe those horrible and disformed patches that really look like Shit and I really never understood how can someone pay $1 or $2 for something so horrible when they could be paying just a little bit more and get an official or at least a decent looking boot.

ZAKRAT's picture

just go for whatever is cheapest id say, and use what other money u got for pfffff... food or something :)
or if any of u guys want to ged rid of money in other ways u could always donate it to:
help poor Timmy through the winter foundation :D

Morbid_Welshman's picture

It's always nice to have the genuine thing, and unless some dick is asking the price of a festival ticket for a patch, then that's what I buy. Although, if there's an album I really love, and a genuine patch was simply never made, I will buy a reasonably-priced bootleg, if it's of decent quality. For me, it's about showing my support for the bands I love, and admiring what is undoubtedly the best artwork of any genre of music. It's not a "Who's got the most expensive?" Competition, which to me says two things; "Poser" and "Someone has too much disposable income" For some reason, patches are awfully hard to come by, here in the UK, and the only places you ever really see them is Festival stalls, which all sell genuines, and usually for something like 5 for £10, which is awesome.

JedCannon's picture

I bought some bootleg electric wizard patches before and they were the worst quality patches I've ever seen. However I found a god bootleg vendor from France where I got some amazing electric wizard patches from. I have no problem with bootleg patches, how else would I get a bolt thrower patch and pin.
At the end of the day it's what you want to put on your own jacket, bootlegged or so vintage it's more expensive than your house if it's what you want then fine. I know some people source original patches but that's more for a collection, some what like a vinyl collector.
I just don't agree with a the horrible people that stand outside shows with terribly bootlegged shirts and the people have no passion in the scene other than for a little extra cash

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